Armor Pen Viability in 3.2

[Jin84]

Not sure if I've heard that some of the ret paladin spells are getting changed to physical melee. Could someone throw the source up here?

Thing is, since it's completely(?) physical, maybe we can get some testing for Armor Pen done as most of the ulduar gear has ArPen except our tiers. Currently, it is not recommended as our spells are holy dmg.

Edit: Don't think Exorcism is physical though. Just remembered they are changing the type of dmg our Judgements do.

[Crovax]

Take ArP if it comes with gear you take for our main stats (str/ap/crit) and not because of the ArP. It still scales horribly for us more than ~45% of our attacks are holy.

And no, the spells did not get changed into "physical damage". Judgement changed into a "physical attack" which means the attack is determined through the phys. attack table.

[iktankniet]

judgement, seal dmg and exorcism still are holy dmg and not mitigated by armor. only CS, DS and auto attacks are.

nice thinking, but the paladin system is a bit wierd

[Jin84]

That's what I thought.. Maybe when the judgement change comes around I might do some tests.

[Soulbender]

am i wrong to think that now that exorcism will be part of our rotation, ArP will be even less effective?

afaik, around 40% of our damage is physical atm. would have to check EJ for exact number.

[iktankniet]

am i wrong to think that now that exorcism will be part of our rotation, ArP will be even less effective?

afaik, around 40% of our damage is physical atm. would have to check EJ for exact number.

you're behind dude..exorcism already is in ret's rotation.

because CS has a lower CD, arP gets a slight boost. it still is the worst stat we can have.

[Barook]

you're behind dude..exorcism already is in ret's rotation.

because CS has a lower CD, arP gets a slight boost. it still is the worst stat we can have.

Haste is on par with ArP in terms of being crap for us, if not a little worse. Blizzard should seriously do something about our scaling, only stacking Str after the Hit cap again can't the be the answer for 3.2.

[Whoopzz]

Actually, with the way things are looking, with seal of vengeance dots and all judgements being melée attacks, ArPen is getting a significant boost in the patch. It won't affect all our damage, but still.

[Crovax]

ArPen is getting a significant boost in the patch

3.2 won't change anything in relation to ArP. Its still a sub stat and shouldn't be criteria of gear preferences nor gemming. Thats all that matters.

[iktankniet]

Actually, with the way things are looking, with seal of vengeance dots and all judgements being melée attacks, ArPen is getting a significant boost in the patch. It won't affect all our damage, but still.

judgement and seal dmg are holy dmg which has nothing to do with arP. they are on the melee table because of our hit rating. else we would have to stack more hit to be capped.

[Barook]

Actually, with the way things are looking, with seal of vengeance dots and all judgements being melée attacks, ArPen is getting a significant boost in the patch.

Nope, not really. Judgements were already ranged melee attacks with Parry/Dodge immunity before and SoV Dots used the spell hitcap (17%).

With that change, Judgements can proc seals and SoV Dots need only 8% hit to be capped.

Nobody said anything about a change from holy damage to physical damage - it's just a change of mechanics, nothing else. ArP still sucks.

[Handsylton]

ArmorPen will always be a middle of the road stat for paladins as long as we do the majority of our damage as holy. Basically, you should be looking for hit (till capped) > expertise (till capped) > strength > crit > haste > ArmorPen > agility/ap/intellect/sp and all the other stats that mean nothing to us.

ArmorPen is not a TERRIBLE stat, but you should be trying for more crit/haste. The only time that ArmorPen is worth the itemization is if the Strength/Crit/Hit/Haste is AMAZING on the piece.

[Jin84]

ArmorPen will always be a middle of the road stat for paladins as long as we do the majority of our damage as holy. Basically, you should be looking for hit (till capped) > expertise (till capped) > strength > crit > haste > ArmorPen > agility/ap/intellect/sp and all the other stats that mean nothing to us.

ArmorPen is not a TERRIBLE stat, but you should be trying for more crit/haste. The only time that ArmorPen is worth the itemization is if the Strength/Crit/Hit/Haste is AMAZING on the piece.

We aren't asking which stat is needed. I'm just throwing up the idea whether Armor Pen will be finally useful to pally post 3.2.

[Handsylton]

We aren't asking which stat is needed. I'm just throwing up the idea whether Armor Pen will be finally useful to pally post 3.2.

It's probably going to remain in the same place. Crit and Strength are still going to be much better, Haste is going to be a little better, and ArmorPen will remain a middle of the road stat.

The problem is ArmorPen only effects half our damage, which is similar to Haste, but it does more for us than ArmorPen. With the changes to CS, ArmorPen might actually leap-frog Haste because of the more frequent CS's, but it will not gain more value than either Strength or Crit.

[davep]

ArPen won't beat haste, especially since we are now using SoV and more haste means quicker stacking

[Handsylton]

ArPen won't beat haste, especially since we are now using SoV and more haste means quicker stacking

The stacks will be up within 3 GCD's anyway. The .5-1.5 seconds extra that it will take to stack HV probably won't break your DPS.

The only reason that ArPen would beat out haste is the inceased number of CS's we'll be doing. You're right though, I doubt ArPen would overtake Haste, which would keep it as a mediocre stat that we shouldn't be looking for.

[Deleted]

judgement and seal dmg are holy dmg which has nothing to do with arP. they are on the melee table because of our hit rating. else we would have to stack more hit to be capped.

well it didn't use the spell hit table before it used the physical ranged which means it is a nerf since now it can be dodged and parried

[Crovax]

well it didn't use the spell hit table before it used the physical ranged which means it is a nerf since now it can be dodged and parried

I ran a test on PTR and Judgements cannot be dodged.
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t64775-3...discussion/p9/

[Ronark]

well it didn't use the spell hit table before it used the physical ranged which means it is a nerf since now it can be dodged and parried

They are now unblockable/dodgable/parried melee attacks.

The stacks will be up within 3 GCD's anyway. The .5-1.5 seconds extra that it will take to stack HV probably won't break your DPS.

The only reason that ArPen would beat out haste is the inceased number of CS's we'll be doing. You're right though, I doubt ArPen would overtake Haste, which would keep it as a mediocre stat that we shouldn't be looking for.

The haste adds up and we get more seal hits in. There is no way that ArP will ever be better than Haste.

[Prentice]

They are now unblockable/dodgable/parried melee attacks.

The haste adds up and we get more seal hits in. There is no way that ArP will ever be better than Haste.

Not until our seals deal physical, like a 5 stack of deep wounds. Haste will continue to best ArP.