Elemental Warding

[ramsesakama]

Not enough people are advocating for Elemental Warding, the 6% damage reduction talent in Elemental tree. So to put my two cents: every decently geared Elemental Shaman should have this talent if they want to do end-game raiding. But it's not a good investment for 5-man heroics or leveling.

In a proper raid setup, you can or drop points from Convection, drop Unrelenting Storm entirely, or put one point in it and drop Shamanistic Focus. You're never going to have mana issues unless you're doing something really screwy.

The possible (bad) reasons you have mana issues in Ulduar:

1) You've died and ankh'd
2) You're spamming chain lightning
3) You're spamming shocks*
4) Your raid has no replenish
5) You aren't using TS when it's off CD
6) You aren't refreshing WS when it's down

* If you really need to spam shocks on some fight, just pick up SF with the extra point; problem solved.

If you're doing 1, then don't. If you're doing 2, 3 or 4, then there's probably something wrong with you or your raid setup. And if you can't find time to remedy 5 or 6, you need to learn to hot key WS/TS and use them while running.

There are very few fights (any?) in Ulduar that are 100% stationary but require mana regeneration. There is at least one stationary fight where mana regen is meaningless. The majority of the fights require mobility, which is when you should take advantage of your free mana from thunderstorm and water shield.

You get about 150 mp5 from Unrelenting Storm, but get the same amount from consistently using Thunder Storm when it's off cooldown. You won't get more than 50 mp5 from using Shamanistic Focus in a normal rotation. A decently geared Shaman will not need these talents unless they are in exceptional circumstances or doing something wrong.

The 6% damage reduction is like a mini-defensive stance, and is basically free with your talents as long as you aren't having mana problems. Your healers may not notice, but if everyone in the raid had talents like this, it would be an obvious boon. Unless your gear sucks or you can't manage your abilities correctly, consider putting 3 points into it.

[Nomitalo]

In the ideal talent setup for Elemental Shaman, you will not be using this. Then again, it's a game that is always open to customization. You could take the points out of your mana reduction talents, certainly; but for long fights, mana can always become an issue.

I think it's one of those "to each, his/her own" things. I personally don't use it, but I stay outta the damaging stuff on the ground better than most.

[Vashta]

Step out of the fire and let the healers do there job.

Elemental Warding is a PvP talent.

[Skollvaldr]

Step out of the fire and let the healers do there job.

Elemental Warding is a PvP talent.

this. it's absolutely not your job to skill in defensive, personal only talentas as a dps.

[ramsesakama]

Step out of the fire and let the healers do there job.

Elemental Warding is a PvP talent.

I suppose you also think that you should step out of the High Voltage on Steelbreaker and the Frozen Blows on Hodir, or the various random AoE abilities that indiscriminately hit everyone in the raid. Ever die to a Napalm Shell? Probably not, unless you tried hard mode Mimiron.

It's silly to argue that 6% damage reduction is bad when it comes for basically free.

[Yohassakura]

Step out of the fire and let the healers do there job.

Elemental Warding is a PvP talent.

Well, you're ignorant, as you can't help avoid raid wide damage, and it certainately helps in fights like mimiron, yogg etc.

Anyways, if you need the "extra" 3 points in convection then you're definately doing something wrong like the OP said.

[Skollvaldr]

Well, you're ignorant, as you can't help avoid raid wide damage, and it certainately helps in fights like mimiron, yogg etc.

Anyways, if you need the "extra" 3 points in convection then you're definately doing something wrong like the OP said.

vice versa: if you need the 6% dmg reduction your healers are doing something wrong or the equip/skill status of your raid just isn't ready for the encounter

[ramsesakama]

vice versa: if you need the 6% dmg reduction your healers are doing something wrong or the equip/skill status of your raid just isn't ready for the encounter

The 6% damage reduction is purely beneficial. It's basically free, so you should take it, otherwise you're not doing your job right. It's as bad as not buffing before a boss fight.

[Tigercat]

Not enough people are advocating for Elemental Warding, the 6% damage reduction talent in Elemental tree. So to put my two cents: every decently geared Elemental Shaman should have this talent if they want to do end-game raiding. But it's not a good investment for 5-man heroics or leveling.

In a proper raid setup, you can drop Unrelenting Storm entirely, or put one point in it and drop Shamanistic Focus. You're never going to have mana issues unless you're doing something really screwy.

The possible (bad) reasons you have mana issues in Ulduar:

1) You've died and ankh'd
2) You're spamming chain lightning
3) You're spamming shocks*
4) Your raid has no replenish
5) You aren't using TS when it's off CD
6) You aren't refreshing WS when it's down

* If you really need to spam shocks on some fight, just pick up SF with the extra point; problem solved.

If you're doing 1, then don't. If you're doing 2, 3 or 4, then there's probably something wrong with you or your raid setup. And if you can't find time to remedy 5 or 6, you need to learn to hot key WS/TS and use them while running.

There are very few fights (any?) in Ulduar that are 100% stationary but require mana regeneration. There is at least one stationary fight where mana regen is meaningless. The majority of the fights require mobility, which is when you should take advantage of your free mana from thunderstorm and water shield.

You get about 150 mp5 from Unrelenting Storm, but get the same amount from consistently using Thunder Storm when it's off cooldown. You won't get more than 50 mp5 from using Shamanistic Focus in a normal rotation. A decently geared Shaman will not need these talents unless they are in exceptional circumstances or doing something wrong.

The 6% damage reduction is like a mini-defensive stance, and is basically free with your talents as long as you aren't having mana problems. Your healers may not notice, but if everyone in the raid had talents like this, it would be an obvious boon. Unless your gear sucks or you can't manage your abilities correctly, consider putting 3 points into it.

When you move is when you refresh flame shock or throw an earth shock if you're close enough and it's movement you HAVE to do. This works both ways. When you have to re-shock is when you move a little in situations where you might stand to gain something from moving, but it's not absolutely necessary. The only time I bother with Thunderstorm as I'm moving is if I'm close enough to anything to actually damage them with it. If you need to TS for mana your raid dps/comp probably sucks.

[Naforce]

vice versa: if you need the 6% dmg reduction your healers are doing something wrong or the equip/skill status of your raid just isn't ready for the encounter

This is so wrong. Algalon25 scenario: A collapsing star dies, shaman goes down to like below 10% hp. Any random damage now will kill the shaman. Unfortunately there's also comsic smash on algalon, which will kill the shaman if he/she is unlucky. It's not hard to take like 1-2k damage from 3 cosmic smashes. Imagine worst case scenario, star dies, cosmic smash come in a triangle around you. If you run for it, you'll end up too close to either one of them and die. If you stand still, you'll die. You'd have survived if yu'd taken 6% less damage. You can't be combat ressed nor can you ankh very usefully since youll end up dying by the first star that dies since you wont have that food buff nomatter what.

Many hard mode fights in Ulduar has unavoidable raid-damage. If it's not 400dps of a let down then it surely is worth speccing those 6% less damage taken nomatter, you'll make it easier for your healers!

[Yohassakura]

vice versa: if you need the 6% dmg reduction your healers are doing something wrong or the equip/skill status of your raid just isn't ready for the encounter

I was hoping that you'd say that - What if the healers are ya know, healing other people and so don't get to you in time for whatever reason, and you might be a few people down or something. Less damage taken = more chance of survival, plus atm in live shamans have one of the lowest health pools (base is being increased by 7% or so... woo) and so it can be nasty when you get a lightbomb, gravity bomb and tantrum on XT-200 in a row, so that extra 6% might save you.

Not sure if you did BT in TBC but council could jib you with lots attacks all in one and it happened frequently, blizzard, flame strike and maybe a holy wrath (arcane was only on the tank or when melee got too close to the mage) with a rogue envenoming you, okay so you might only be unlucky on a few fights like yogg, xt, council hardmode & algalon but raid damage is raid damage and 3 points would be better spent in ele warding which can help save your life to DPS rather than spending some points in a shyte talent which does nothing if you're any good.

[Eyetotem]

vice versa: if you need the 6% dmg reduction your healers are doing something wrong or the equip/skill status of your raid just isn't ready for the encounter

/facepalm at the casual

[soniqboom]

I recently changed my dual spec to take elemental warding, (dropped 3 points in convection)
With my current gear my regen rate is pretty insane dont think ive ever found myself going oom or even below half mana
6% dmg reduction on fights like mirm hard mode, and algalon this is certainly worth picking up if your gear is good enough to support your drop in mp5 or increased cast cost

[Aoundril]

Like soniqboom implies; dont drop unrelenting storm but instead drop convection. Myself I dropped all five points in it as the slight mana cost reduction is far from needed if you have unrelenting storm (even at low mana like just after a reincarnation I can go nuking and still regain mana.). Reason why I'm dropping convection instead of unrelenting storm is that mana regen is more reliable than reduced mana cost.

Also with the five points I picked elemental warding because in raiding the extra survivability is never a bad thing, especially if you don't have to take the points out of dps talents. The two remaining points I put in Improved Ghost Wolf because it's a damn fun talent and seriously the two points there has turned out far more useful than when they were in convection. It's only useful in outdoors fights ofc (for example on XT-002 hardmode I can run away to the appropriate void zone drop spots, get a lava burst and a lightning bolt off before it explodes and then be back in my spot among the rest really fast to continue nuking)

[fakestreet]

first of all, point per point US > Convection (except on Vezax). each point in US will net you more mana than each point in Convection (unless you're spamming CL on cooldown). so it makes no sense to drop any points in US before completely dropping Convection. so something like this (note that i generally bring Enhancing Totems over the Resto since they can pick up HPS talents instead while we only lose mana talents). recently i've been too lazy to respec for Vezax so i usually drop EotS for partial Convection.

second, EW is pretty much "mandatory" for hard modes. there isn't a single fight in Ulduar where you aren't taking (unavoidable) raid damage and considering hard modes usually increases the amount of raid damage, any damage reduction will increase your chance of surviving which in turn increases your chance of continuing to DPS rather than lying face-down on the floor.

[Skollvaldr]

/facepalm at the casual

would you mind checking my armory before calling someone casual?

and 6% dmg redux will NOT get you through hardmodes if your raid can't do it without you having EW.
i'm not arguing that EW is a better/worse choice then convex, i'm just trying to make clear that people should not rely on a talent that insignificant.
6% by itself is nothing. your healers won't notice.

edit: just in case there are more than one skollvaldrs (which there probably are), im on anub'arak eu.

[SkodLife]

Personally, I dropped Eye of the Storm for EW, with the reason "You shouldn't get much interrupted in raids".
Now I'm not so sure anymore. Bosses such as Mimiron and Freya can be rather anoying with spell pushback.

The point is: If one should change his/her spec to go Elemental with EW, Convection would probably be the most vise choice, due to the insane mana regen from US.

Current spec: 57/14/0

My two cents. Even though we don't have cents in my country.

[Schippi]

i think elemental warding is a MUST for every serious raider.
you cannot run oom exept you ankh or you got no replenishment.
even on vezax without using saronitevapors i could easily down hin with 50% od my manapool. (but i burn my mana the last few % )
manareg is WASTED.

every dmg reduction is welcome when its free. ALWAYS.

its same with tankpala, does he take that 1% parry or that 50mp5? guess what - he is manastarved anyway

same with us.


the argument that it doesnt get you through hardmodes is a lie :P just did firefighter first time and i tanked the head and one time i dropped to about 1k HP but i survived cause of EW. yes, i died later on and ankhed but TS, and WS and i didnt even needed to recast WS once more cause of replenishment.

manareg = nothing
EW > nothing
EW > manareg

[patmans]

Acts as a nice PvP talent, no ?
Id personally spec into mana
if I can still keep casting later in the fight then its more helpful to the rai

[Delirious?]

If you are going OOM.

1. Gear isn't all that
2. Using CL in your rotation.


The end.