Some Still Believe...

[mogulkhan]

>.<

[velourea]

This is a nice thread. Lets discuss other people's wishes and laugh at them.

They are so silly. It makes me laugh.

[Burner]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

yup yup. WoW has always felt like a struggle to keep up. You finally get all the content complete so you can start to enjoy other areas of the game and relax a bit and bam new patch full of shit you cant complete by the time they release another packed full patch. I used to spend hours upon hours a week probably as much as I work at my job in WoW but I have been sick for a month and miserable for unknown reasons. In this time I've found myself not up to logging in daily after work and I've realized how much time I used to spend doing this only for it to really be pointless in the end. I'm now looking forward to getting well and just being a (casual).
Spending your WoW time on a toilet makes you realize there's far better things you could be doing.

[Iosif]

I believe they were discussing hardmode heroics, i think that would be awesome to be honest. I really liked the difficulty of some of the BC heroics.

The OP was referanceing this post on the Official Forum.

The issue with Ulduar that is going to really affect it's replay value is that it is really hard. Anyone who says different has not tried to pug it. I have pugged it with players who've all done it before and still wiped 4 or more times on the bosses. I mean seriously that is going to kill it for a lot of people.

The cool thing about Nax was that you could PUG through it and it was fun. The thing that got boring was that it was the only raid option available. Burning Crusade did a much better job with raiding than WotLK has. We had multiple choices, they were decent to progress through yet all were reasonably challenging and most of all you could PUG them.

Ulduar is none of those things. It's a very hard coordinated fight that takes practice with the same people. Pugging in one player in Ulduar can literally wipe the whole raid repeatedly. I've seen it done multiple times. You get one person in there who hasn't done the fight and the whole raid can go down in a matter of seconds.

Don't get me wrong I like the difficulty but it's only really relevant when I'm raiding with my guild. PUG's in Ulduar are fail except for maybe Flame Leviathan.

My guild hosts a invite only Pug... i guess its not really a Pug anymore but we take people that know how to play with others that know how to play with out gear checks beyond "Hey are you reasonably geared?" and we have gotten all the way to Yogg.

Many people fail to understand the difficulty is a perception that is colored buy your skill level. Most everyone can drive a race car, not everyone can drive a race car around a racetrack at top speed, and even fewer can do it at top speed in traffic. Although most people will claim that they can.

[Baever]

Many people fail to understand the difficulty is a perception that is colored buy your skill level. Most everyone can drive a race car, not everyone can drive a race car around a racetrack at top speed, and even fewer can do it at top speed in traffic. Although most people will claim that they can.

And fewer people understand that, at least in the instance of PvE, that 'skill' pertains to cookie-cutter talent trees, copy/paste rotations and the ability to move out of fire. That alone will get you a Yogg kill.

[mickloven]

I think the funny thing is actually that the op (on the WoW forum) stated that TBC raid content was puggable. Kara and Gruul may have become puggable late in TBC due to badge gear becoming readily available (like Naxx now), but I don't see how any t5 or beyond content in TBC was puggable until maybe just before launch of WoLTK.

I have no problems with the concept of making WoW more casual. Other people's progression does not affect my enjoyment. However, I don't think that upper tier content should be puggable. Why? Not because I'm an elitist, but rather because difficult, coordinated encounters that take time to learn are simply more fun. If raids were set up so that any random group could clear with ease, in my opinion, the game simply wouldn't be fun.

As someone else said, there are a lot of people playing, there is a guild for everyone. With Emblems, no attunement and 10 man versions of all raids, I don't see any reason that the majority of players interested in progression cannot find a regular group to realize their goals.

[Advent]

I'm afraid fun as you stated it, is subjective, it changes from person to person. The problem with every raid being 'puggable', is that the higher tiered content is made so easily accessible and simplistic, that it all but ruins the challenge that the original, more difficult encounter would have posed. Difficulty is everything. If an encounter poses little to no challenge, then replay value is ruined. If replay value is ruined, then when another tier comes out, no one wants to run the lower tier. If no one wants to run them, those people who have the desire to push into raiding at some level will find themselves at a brick wall when it comes to progression in most cases.

[Dalco]

Didn't even go to the link. Just checked out your avatar.

[Advent]

Didn't even go to the link. Just checked out your avatar.

-_-

[Jalzyboo]

Unlike other games, WoW has no tutorial.

Players are playing alone for the most part, and it almost comes like a culture shock for players to reach 80, and now they have a new goal.

No longer is the goal to gain experience by collecting wings and flanks, now the goal is to literally twink out your character by means of either PvP or PvE. And there is simply no tutorial on how to do that unless the PLAYER takes initiative and does his homework on boss fights and rep grinds. WoW is a pretty tough game to wrap your head around, but it is very easy to master as long as you have time.