Combat Gemming - Agi vs AP

[Ryuuji]

Sweet god.. the concentrated fail...

Gem for Agi. Agi, at t8 levels(Equiv, and even more-so with 4 piece) boosts to about 2.06 EP.

[Kesther]

The crit gained from agi needs to be factored into the extra damage you get from your rupture critting, making it even more useful. But hey, I gem for Armour pen!

[Sinister]

Question, AP or AGI for PVP combat?

[ant1pathy]

Question, AP or AGI for PVP combat?

AP for burst, Agi for a little more hardiness.

[Elvymir]

The argument of Agi or AP has been around for awhile now. It honestly is a shooters preference.
But this is how I see it from experience.

Every single spread sheet you visit will tell you to gem Agi over AP anytime, but it actually the AP is far superior. Back in the BC days at 70, we recieved 2 AP per one agi, but with the level increase the amount of AP we recieve from Agi has actually decreased to 1.1 ap per Agi, so effectively, it better to gem strait AP.

Now heres the part for those who say "but you gain crit and dodge from Agi".

If your rolling with gear thats 4/5 of T8 and following the gear spread sheets, you should have well over 40% crit, and i do believe there is some kind of soft cap on crit rating, but dont quote me.
Heres my armory if you dont believe me about the crit.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...thas&n=Elvymir

From my personal experience from playing a rogue, the crit and dodge (lol) is definetly a nice piece of eye candy, but whats the point of having so much crit that when you actually do crit, you dont have the AP to make that massive crit, actually worth wild. Expecailly with the 4/5 T8 your rupture criting will be fine with a high crit chance, but with lack luster AP those crits wont be doing much compared to a slightly lower crit and high AP count.

[Sinister]

AP for burst, Agi for a little more hardiness.

Have you taken into consideration talents such as Savage Combat, Unfair Advantage and Prey on the Weak? I'm buying a slow off-hand tonight to setup players for Killing Spree burst with (lol) duel Berserker enchant.

[Grindfreak]

Back in the BC days at 70, we recieved 2 AP per one agi

Now I dont do this often... but I just have to...



Apologies in advance.

Every single spread sheet you visit will tell you to gem Agi over AP anytime.

this is false, generally pre t8.5 4/5 attack power hits the spot, but varies with your gear.

Back in the BC days at 70, we recieved 2 AP per one agi, but with the level increase the amount of AP we recieve from Agi has actually decreased to 1.1 ap per Agi.

Agi has been giving us 1 (read:ONE) attack power since classic wow.

you should have well over 40% crit, and i do believe there is some kind of soft cap on crit rating, but dont quote me.

There is yes, and you can find out your personal crit cap by deducting your personal chance to miss, get dodged, and get glanced towards 104.8% (4.8% is what the boss reduces your personal crit by due to lvl difference)

and unless you are running with zero expertise and zero hit, you are fine with gemming agility with your 40-45% crit.

but whats the point of having so much crit that when you actually do crit, you dont have the AP to make that massive crit.

this is logical, but false, suggest you re'read what the equivalence points system is ment for.

[Trucidor]

If your rolling with gear thats 4/5 of T8 and following the gear spread sheets, you should have well over 40% crit, and i do believe there is some kind of soft cap on crit rating, but dont quote me.
Heres my armory if you dont believe me about the crit.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...thas&n=Elvymir

From my personal experience from playing a rogue, the crit and dodge (lol) is definetly a nice piece of eye candy, but whats the point of having so much crit that when you actually do crit, you dont have the AP to make that massive crit, actually worth wild. Expecailly with the 4/5 T8 your rupture criting will be fine with a high crit chance, but with lack luster AP those crits wont be doing much compared to a slightly lower crit and high AP count.

At 4/5 t8, looking at a spreadsheet, for me agi = 2.0317 EP (and AP obv = 1 EP).

Being a JC, I can gem straight AGI in every socket, which for my gear is a total of 193 agi, or 392.1 EP. Switching all those to AP gems would give me 354 EP...a gap which will only grow larger as I get more BiS gear (and more sockets with it).

Looking at your armory, you have 40% crit, with just over 4k AP.  I'm showing 42.3% crit, with 3.8k AP.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ath&n=Trucidor

I'll take the 2% crit over the 200 AP.

[Phyta]

Agi has been giving us 1 (read:ONE) attack power since classic wow

That sir is incorrect, we DID used to get 2 ap per 1 agil. How are you the rogue mod and not know that?

edit: unless you meant that it did in vanilla wow, but since TBC and later xpacs it was made 1:1 along with str. But when wow was released and the level cap was 60, 1 point of agi gave rogues 2 ap.

[Abbadon]

That sir is incorrect, we DID used to get 2 ap per 1 agil. How are you the rogue mod and not know that?

edit: unless you meant that it did in vanilla wow, but since TBC and later xpacs it was made 1:1 along with str. But when wow was released and the level cap was 60, 1 point of agi gave rogues 2 ap.

It's always been 1:1 with agil and str which is why some our earliest set pieces had both str and agil on them. Hunters used to get 2 AP per 1 agil, not rogues.

[Phyta]

It's always been 1:1 with agil and str which is why some our earliest set pieces had both str and agil on them. Hunters used to get 2 AP per 1 agil, not rogues.

Im sorry but you are wrong

[Ryuuji]

It's always been 1:1 with agil and str which is why some our earliest set pieces had both str and agil on them. Hunters used to get 2 AP per 1 agil, not rogues.

No.. Rogues used to get 2 AP per Agi.

[Phyta]

Googled it and found a 2005 post from a blue on the wow forums.

Agility
- Increases Attack Power by 2 for every point of AGI.
- Increases the chance of a critical hit with melee and ranged attacks. The amount of the increase is dependant on both class and level. For most level 60 character classes, approximately 20 points of AGI will increase your critical hit chance by approximately 1%. Rogues require 29 AGI for an additional 1% critical hit chance, and Hunters require 53 AGI for an additional 1% critical hit chance, but both of these classes also gain attack power from agility and the items available to them typically have much higher amounts of AGI.

the post goes on and on, but I assure you, back in the day of wow, rogues got 2 ap per 1 agi, and 1 ap per 1 str. Hence why they changed it to 1:1. We used to have agi and str on items and were getting insane ap due to getting basically triple ap bonus (2 per agi and 1 per str) so since STR still adds 1 ap per 1 str (which is useless still but nevertheless) they lowered it to 1 ap per 1 agi, since we got a str bonus also.

How am I the only guy that remembers that?

[Phyta]

No.. Rogues used to get 2 AP per Agi.

Heh thx for backing me up, I guess we can tell whos been playing rogues since day 1, and who hasnt

[Deleted]

Even given that 16 Agi = 31.5376 EP and 32 AP = 32 AP... the 16 Agi will also add Crit and Dodge

actually that is why 16 agi is worth 31.5376 EP and 32 AP is worth 32 EP.

[Phyta]

actually that is why 16 agi is worth 31.5376 EP and 32 AP is worth 32 EP.

People...ffs do your research and stop just spouting nonsense...

This is taken directly from the "EJ Spreadsheet" that everyone refers to and uses as the bible

Agi has a EP value of 2.0274
Attack Power has an EP value of 1

So lets do the math shall we?

ATTACK POWER - 32ap x 1 AEP value = 32
AGILITY - 16agi x 2.0274 AEP value = 32.43

so which is more? the agility is, small but still agi is worth more point for point hands down, 99% of the time. I know its very small difference and its mostly splitting hairs but im so tired of people just saying things and having no knowledge of their own and dont take the time to verify what they are saying.

[Grindfreak]

unless you meant that it did in vanilla wow, but since TBC and later xpacs it was made 1:1 along with str. But when wow was released and the level cap was 60, 1 point of agi gave rogues 2 ap.

Yup, i'll admit I did word that badly.

[Shandra]

I tried to read as fast as i could the topic. So maybe someone has already answer it...

But here is what I think the answer is. Enlight me if I'm wrong plz.

It is true that +16 agi<+32 AP by a small amount according to Aldriana EP.

However, You have to take into account whether you're in raid situation. Do you have Benediction of king? (Which boost your basic stats by 10% but not your AP). I don't use spreadsheets but I think there is an option for each buff... Is it the same with or without BOK?


If you don't have BOK then my guess is 16agi < 32 ap, if you do, then you should add the 10% agi to your total of agi and that's probably why agi > ap in raid situation.

Et voila =)

[Phyta]

Yup, i'll admit I did word that badly.

Figured you did but I couldnt miss a shot to jab at you a lil ;D ;D

[Grindfreak]

Figured you did but I couldnt miss a shot to jab at you a lil ;D ;D

hehehe isnt that what rogues do best?