world first: 3-man heroic flame leviathan - time is mana - burning legion

[Muezick]

Blizzard is selling us a program. All reasonably supported quality programs are tested for bugs before they are released. Never the less some bugs always make it through and are discovered by users. It is then up to the designers to fix the bugs. The designers should thank the users who helped them find the bugs, not punish them. Don't release a buggy program and then punish users for finding your bugs. That's the laziest approach to game balance I could imagine. Simply take the loot away so that no one benefits from a bug, give them a free month for their trouble since they are the one's inconvenienced by the designers mistakes/oversights and patch the bug.

Blizzard takes all this care with the EULA and customer service and support and so on.

I imagine if they really screwed over a majority of players with this kind of thing they'd be in trouble.

But because World of Warcraft is trivialized to most of the world as simply a video game, it's seen as unimportant, So I think even if you took blizzard to court, people would be more inclined to laugh at you, rather than help you get your account back.



Honestly though, I'm not sure how much I'd like for people to take it seriously. When people take things seriously, Laws get written and jails start getting fuller, etc.

The internet is a tricky place, sure there are some griefers, blizzard is a griefer sometimes.

But I rather would have a lawless internet, and navigate it carefully, than be told by some law in advance what I can and cant do with it.

p.s. I read your post Burner. I wonder why one of them was predominantly banned and the rest only received 72 hour bans. Maybe he was the ring leader, or had done it before.

[Doddilus]

So what is the difference between this and having 22 people die at the beginning of the fight?

It's not a bug.
Blizzard may call it an exploit, if they do then they are clearly wrong.
It's not even "clever use of game mechanics".
Tell me, with 24 other people in the raid would you not take the furthest route possible when he sets his gaze on you and you are FORCED to kite him?

[Muezick]

So what is the difference between this and having 22 people die at the beginning of the fight?

It's not a bug.
Blizzard may call it an exploit, if they do then they are clearly wrong.
It's not even "clever use of game mechanics".
Tell me, with 24 other people in the raid would you not take the furthest route possible when he sets his gaze on you and you are FORCED to kite him?

with 24 other people yo ucan't force him to go back and forth between corners.

even if you stack 12 and 12, he might chase some one in the corner he's at.

it will ONLY work with 2-4 people.

more then that, and you run the risk of him gazeing some one already in that corner, or what ever and it fucks the strat up.


Honestly, after looking at the whole situation closer.

this falls closely in line with what Exodus did to yogg+0.

Not exactly, but close.

[Valistryx]

If you want the info u can go dig through the past month or two of blue posts on the tracker. Even check out previous posts about this topic and you will read of several guilds getting banned for using this method. It was talked about for days a month or two ago so you should have no problem finding the topics.

I'm logging for the night, but I dont suggest attempting this. The proof you want will be in all those posts I told you about.


Here is one example for you, but I dont have the time to find others.
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....21378670&sid=1

You do realize people were banned for kiting him out of his room, not for kiting him (which is the intented fight mechanic). Understand what you're talking about before you hit the "Post" button.

[Doddilus]

Honestly, after looking at the whole situation closer.

this falls closely in line with what Exodus did to yogg+0.

Not exactly, but close.

LOLWUT?

Trivialize the hardest encounter in the game to date...
Make the easiest fight in ulduar a challege...

yea... close


Was anyone ever banned for 2 manning loatheb? ...that can't be intended by blizzard, but with the mechanics of the fight, the fewer people you have the easier it gets

[Dukamok]

with 24 other people yo ucan't force him to go back and forth between corners.

even if you stack 12 and 12, he might chase some one in the corner he's at.

it will ONLY work with 2-4 people.

more then that, and you run the risk of him gazeing some one already in that corner, or what ever and it fucks the strat up.


Honestly, after looking at the whole situation closer.

this falls closely in line with what Exodus did to yogg+0.

Not exactly, but close.

But getting banned for kiting with this method means that a "legit attempt" would REQUIRE someone to take a hit, which is extremely extremely extremely easy to avoid if you have 10 or 25 people (or at least drivers) that don't absolutely suck. It's quite possible to go an entire attempt with a full raid with no one actually getting assaulted by the boss, if you run properly. Plus, what players and Blizzard apparently don't know is that, if you kite corner to corner, he WILL start reaching you, when his speed is probably at about 8-10 stacks, before he switches to the opposite person. So it's not completely trivialized. The only bannable exploits for this encounter would be bugging him by backing into one of the I believe 2 bugged corners (the two real corners, not the light gate) in such a way that he evades for a short period of time I think (I've seen it in a video), or kiting him out of the playpen (which is known to get people banned quite quickly already). Like everyone with half a brain that isn't up Blizzard's tailpipe is saying, performing the fight with a few people doing it properly and running correctly without getting hit is completely legitimate.

[Benitora]

Actually, those undermanning him with 4 people, placing one demolisher in the corners where banned.

The fight is about being able to kite him while he targets randomly, not targets that's obvious to be chosen. For example while undermanning him, you WILL know which target he will change to. It's not random as it's supposed to be.

Which is why it resulted in a ban, as the random part of the encounter was taken out. However as stupid as it might seem to compare with, it's somewhat close to what Exodus did on Yogg+0, removing a aspect out of the fight.

[Horic]

In my opinion, nobody should be banned for undermanning FL as long as they don't kite him outside of the designated area or anything else shady. 3 people cleverly kiting the boss using the intended mechanic is not exploiting.

[Muezick]

I'm not saying it isn't legitimate.

I Don't think they should've been banned.(At least the guy who was permanently banned in the example cited earlier, temp bans are just slaps on the wrist any ways, no reason to get upset over those.)

I disagree with blizzard.

and my comparison between this incident and the yogg+0(exodus) one was a generalization, they were banned for the same reasons Exodus was, that's all. Reguardless of your opinion, the situations are black and white for blizzard. "exploiting" and "not exploiting". Temp bans are okay, you find a bug, you chose to exploit it, you get a slap on the wrist. It works the same way in the real world, most people don't make the connection though. Here's an example, you're late for work and don't really want to be late, so you speed along the way and get a speeding ticket. You pay a fine, that's your slap on the wrist, you knew speeding was 'wrong' but you did it any way.

I'm not saying this situation here with flame leviathan is that black and white, but if you can do an encounter with significantly less people than was intended and neither of those are in danger, then something could possibly be a miss.

[Belloc]

Here's the deal: If you've seen the screenshot of the GM talking about kiting, you're being fooled.

Yes, that conversation might have happened, but it only means one of two things:

1) The GM was mistaken.
2) The GM was referring to kiting the boss outside of the force field.

Blue has confirmed that the only people who were banned on this fight were those that pulled and killed the boss outside of the force field.

[Storkniv]

Here's the deal: If you've seen the screenshot of the GM talking about kiting, you're being fooled.

Yes, that conversation might have happened, but it only means one of two things:

1) The GM was mistaken.
2) The GM was referring to kiting the boss outside of the force field.

Blue has confirmed that the only people who were banned on this fight were those that pulled and killed the boss outside of the force field.

This

[Nichpish]

There is actually 2 peeps that have downed him

[Muezick]

Here's the deal: If you've seen the screenshot of the GM talking about kiting, you're being fooled.

Yes, that conversation might have happened, but it only means one of two things:

1) The GM was mistaken.
2) The GM was referring to kiting the boss outside of the force field.

Blue has confirmed that the only people who were banned on this fight were those that pulled and killed the boss outside of the force field.

Can you cite some sources?

[Simbert]

People really need to realize that there is a big difference between "fact" and "what someone said in a forum". What one can see pretty often, especially around this forum here, is that someone says something. Without any proof or anything, simply. Like, "I got banned for 4-manning FL" "Ensidia and Elitistjerks said Yogg 0 is impossible".

And than, because this leads to a long thread, everyone believes it is true. I have yet to see some proof for both of the above statements. Noone seems to be able to post a convincing link. But everytime something remotely related comes up, there are about 5-10 people stating "Lulz u r gonna get banned". The problem is, that people talk shit in forums all the time. But sometimes this shit start growing, and suddenly everyone says its roses.

According to these forums around here, Blizzard never bans anyone who deserves it. Similar, in prison, somehow everyone is innocent. There really is not one guilty person in any prison on earth, they are all just mistakes of the justice system. So, in conclusion, do not believe everybody. Especially if the other possibility is something that would make that person look bad, and he has no proof at all, be very sceptic.

[Kharay1977]

Noone seems to be able to post a convincing link.

the evidence has conveniently gone missing.

[Symphonic]

The only exploit in Flame Leviathan encounter is taking him out of his force field or causing him to stop moving. If someone kills him with 2 people in his room without abusing the game mechanics, then it should be fine in my opinion.

I don't think the OP will be banned. And I have 2 manned FL 10 legitimately - took like 3 or so deaths to get the luck we needed on speed boosts / pyrite disappearing - but we did it without exploiting, and we did not get banned.