Class Q&A Series: Warrior

[dost]

Every DPS chart you see from a High-End End-Game guild the Deathknight is always WAY above everyone else.

Good Example:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ly/yoggdms.jpg

Bad Example. That Death Knight was probably Unholy and went to town with AoE. Or even Frost. I'm sure a Warrior would have similar results if it just AoE'd the Immortal Guardians.

Pretty sure regardless of what happens, Warriors will survive. You're not broken now, and you're not wildly lower than anyone else. Given the state of WoW, you're more than likely not going to lose your raid spot because of your class. It'll probably be your lack of skills.

[Darksoldierr]

I dont get what is your problem, it was clear after the first 2-3 Q&A , that you can get nothhing worthy information out of them

[Minky]

I didnt cancel but my Warrior is shelfed for a real dps class (Rogue).

Retarded some of the ideas Blizz has.

If you wanted a "Real DPS class", why didn't you roll Rogue in the first place? I'm fairly certain it's obvious, if you did a little pre-play research, or even if you played the class to 20 and looked at the talents, that Warriors are a hybrid Tanking/DPSing class.

[Enntreri]

All this proves is that blizz messed the class up so bad they dont know how to fix it.

The scaling issue is ridiculous, you have to have 4 pieces of T8.5 to come close to other classes in dps. I am almost all BIS gear and can pull 4-6k on most fights but it wasnt until i was geared out that i was even in the top 8 dps in my guild.

Fury in raid content is 3 buttons while spamming a 4th, not fun, and in order to even keep enough rage to play for maximum dps you have to have a enhance shaman in your group.

Warriors will still be broken in 3.2, we can just pray they will be fixed sometime this decade.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-Sk...um/damageDone/

[lolwuttt]

Terrible waste of time imo.

I could go fury but I have access to BiS gear.
Most people don't.

Why bother to make some useless drivel like this, let alone have a SPEC (fury) that by default excluded 99% of the population from being even remotely competitive by default?

As for "on par with DKs" ... luls.

[Morgoth of Balkan]

GC should be a politician...so many words and nothing said.
Very nice job.
Warrs remain laughing stock in PvE and in PvP.
/rerolling lock
over & out

[Deleted]

So far the shaman QnA has been the only good read.

For people saying QQ more warriors, the point was we don't want omg huge buff in these QnA's just common issues at least mentioned.
For example prot threat and HS spam.
This has to be the worst one so far, i have to agree.

[Ashkani]

haha. this was the worst, lamest Q&A ever. they didnt even answer any of the real questions. they decided to answer some questions no one even cares about.

i think the problem with warriors is utility. being the only class to lose half your dps when focused, where as a rogue just pops evasive cooldowns isnt really fair to warriors. no class should lose half their dps at anytime.

blizzard will never give warriors that. they want to keep us reliant on others, and babysat with good healers. enough is enough.

i played warrior for 4 years. got gladiator in all the seasons and i can honestly say, im tired of it all. warrior class wont change to the way the community wants it. blizzard has its own wacko ideas and they ignore the community on most occasions and come up with their own lame stuff each patch.

if you want to play and have fun in pvp, just reroll another class. you can call me whatever you want, but this i know is true: your class will never change to the way you want it as a community. trust me, i been reading the bullshit blizzard changes since day1. they never had it right back then (they used to make us overpowered as fuck) and apparently, 4 years later, they still dont know how to get it right. so ya.. gg community feedback.

my 2 year old nephew could probably do a better job at making the warrior class more balanced.... alright maybe not .... .. .^_^ but you get the idea

[Neri]

We like situational abilities.
When specs don’t have situational abilities, it’s easy to fall into a very fixed rotation.
We call this the metronome.
Push button 1, 2, 3 on your keyboard over and over until the bad guy drops loot.

Guess that rules Balance druids out of that then..

1 IS
2 wrath
3 Starfire
4 moonfire

[Aliencow]

i just say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km3b4CXMkno ^^

[Amurru]

I was hoping they'd talk about issues that warriors have brought up ... Like gear itemization, heroic strike spams, aoe threat, and buffing shield block so we aren't useless tanks with 1 good cooldown.

[Throrion]

Omg grow up you babies. On 2nd thought, don't, just go ahead and re-roll so that the average IQ of the warrior class will go up.

GC was right on in the numerous threads where he said unless the class Q&A's are filled with "We're giving you buffs, we're giving you buffs!", people will think it's garbage.

There were a couple issues that weren't specifically addressed, such as heroic strike spam, but (pay attention here) it's not like they've never talked about those topics before. Even without mention of heroic strike spam, GC has already acknowledged that it's a problem. Sure it would've been better to get an idea of what specific solution they're coming up with, but blizz might not have decided on or tested a solution yet.

As a tank, I can say that my primary issues are low dps, threat generation typically not equitable to other tanks (particularly aoe threat), rage gen when not tanking, and the lack of incentive to stack block. Almost every one of these topics (sans aoe threat) was touched on. And if you're a prot warr who cries about threat gen and you don't have expertise soft capped, vigilance glyphed (or worse, specced), and respectable hit rating, then neither blizz, nor myself, nor any other tank worth their salt is going to have any sympathy for you.

On the dps side of things, I would've enjoyed some discussion on the only talent in the game that purposely and directly *decreases* dmg (Titans Grip), but once again, they've already talked that topic to death. Like others, I do certainly disagree with blizz's assertion that warrior dps is in line with DKs and feral.

The Q&A really wasn't that bad. It could've been better, I'm sure even GC would say the same, but it still managed to address the majority of the class's pressing issues.

[execc]

Kind of amusing how you can read the age of players by how they react to blue posts.

To start: I am a warlock. My Q&A was alright, and about what I expected. This is a long post, because I'm bored with warriors whining about how bad things are. Eventually you'll accept that you're hybrids and deal with that like everyone else has to.

Q&A, what they are not:
-"Yes, we'll buff this" response to gotcha questions.
-"You're right, that fundamental part of your class's kit -is- both neat and obnoxious. We'll remove it and leave the neat behind."
-Copy and paste of previous blue posts which you should read if you actually care about your class

Q&A, what they are:
-Discussion about the philosophical ideas, the development, the design behind each class. (You know, answers to the ever-popular "Fine then Blizz, what do -you- see our class as?!" forum questions)
-General descriptions of where the classes are going and how the dev team sees them
-Answers to a wide variety of threads/forums, from around the world

Mostly going to focus on debunking the DPS myths here. Tanks seem to be an exceptionally weird crowd lately and every one of them thinks they're the worst class for it, so I see no point in even trying to make a point there.

As far as "we see warriors as being in line with hybrid dps", a couple thoughts:
1) DKs&Ferals are not the entire list of hybrids. Somebody has to be last on the list, maybe it's you right now. Fun? No. Fair? Likely.
2) Ferals are getting nerfed in 3.2, though not as dramatically as you might want. Blizz is possibly over-estimating the difficulty of the rotation, in justifying damage. We'll see.
3) DKs' dps has some situationally goofy abilities, like wandering plague. Of course their goddamned Yogg dps is high. Unholy blight is getting changed from AOE to ST, so unholy DKs' ability to exploit those situations is going down.
4) Elsewise, yes, DK dps could be high. Honestly, the skilled DK and warrior players I group with don't seem to put out dramatically different numbers. You can argue the DKs I know are bad. I can argue the warriors you know are bad.

While we're at it, let's take a look at some of this "omg DKs r op omg" crap:
First, WMO's damage to boss charts:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dtb/all/7/0/3
Ok, no DKs or Wars on Algalon, Yogg, Vezax, VezaxH.
-Freya: DK, 11th. Warrior, 14th, Warrior 16th, DK, 20th.
-FreyaH: warrior, 3rd, DK 4th (and almost 9% behind), then another DK down at 18th
-Thorim: warrior 6th, no DKs
-ThorimH: DK 6th, 16th, warrior 20th. All pretty solid.
-Hodir: Frost DK 13th, lolFS.
-MimiH: warrior 2nd, DK 4th,
-Kolo: warriors 1,2,5, and 18. One DK, 14th
-Couple DKs low on IC hard
-Ignis: war 2nd, DK 4th, war 6th, war 11th, 15th, 17th, DK 19th
-XT: DK 7th, war 18th
-XT hard: war 3rd, DK 6th
Ok, that's an interesting picture

Now, all DPS:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/7/0/3
-Algalon: war 4th, 6th, DK 7th, 17th
-Yogg, DK 2nd, warriors 6th and 8th
-Freya, couple DKs here (YayOE)
-FreyaH, couple DKs here (YayOE)
-Thorim, DK 1st, warrior third, but generally DK dominated
-ThorimH: warriors 4th, 6th, no DKs
-Mimi: Warriors very strong here, couple DK
-MimiH: Wars 1st/3rd, DK 4th
-Auriaya: lolfight, most of the records from before the add numbers got reduced, DKs 1st/2nd :P
-Kolo, DKs pull ahead dpsin' those arms!
-IC hard: hey some DKs, no wars
-Ignis: DK 2nd, war 4th, DK 11th, war 12th, war 19th

Do you get the point yet? I could probably spell it out more clearly, but some of you need practice reading anyways.
I'm fairly comfortable saying that DK and warrior damage is generally equitable. DKs, like rogues, abuse some AOE situations right now, and that is being addressed in 3.2 a bit.

Cats, would take a separate analysis but they are definitely strong. And getting nerfed. Hmm.

If you don't get anything out of Q&As, don't read them. They're discussing design. They are not discussing the problems you have getting respect from your guild.

Yes, this is basically a long "l2p and shut up" post. Have a nice day.

First off, last I checked warlocks weren't a hybrid class, so what do you know about "everyone else?".

Second of all, you are looking at an extremely small spectrum of values for your comparisons. 0.001%? There's something called 'scaling with gear' and 'gear dependency'. Hybrid warrior dps scales differently (especially arms) than DKs. As a matter of fact, I would like to see a dps graph of warrior/dk/ret pally/feral druid that go from ilvl 180-250.

This brings me to the actual Q&A, which for the most part was a completely useless re-iteration and admission of some of the already existing problems, and of course no solutions, no plans, no promises. A few maybes here and there, the ideas blizz has and why they are bad (WTF?). Why did I waste my time reading this.

Oh and please freaking distinguish between levels of hybridism. Paladins and druids are a lot more hybrid than dks/warriors.

Hybridism:
1. Warrior (least hybrid. 1 tank spec, 2 dps specs).
2. DK (3 tank specs, 3 dps specs)
3. Paladin (1 melee dps spec, 1 healing spec, 1 tanking spec)
4. Druid (most hybrid. 1 melee dps spec, 1 tanking spec, 1 healing spec, 1 caster dps spec)

In my opinion, paladins and druids should ALWAYS be WORSE than any other class in the same gear/skill because of having the advantage of the most hybrid classes.

my 2c.

[Amurru]

personally blizzard needs to redefine their definition of a hybrid. A hybrid in my opinion is someone who can perform multiple roles with a single spec. Example would be a druid moonkin that can heal in bad situation or a feral druid that can tank if the other tanks die. Pallies can spot heal in any spec. Warriors well warriors can only do what they spec for. We can't pick up a boss and survive if the other tanks die we get one hit way to quickly. We just don't have the dmg mitigation of other classes. So to say that warriors are a "hybrid" imo is a farce. We dps as arms fury or tank as prot. Can't do the other if you aren't specced for it while druids and pallies can.

[Gornac]

Complete and utter bullshit WTF nerf one of our best threat moves becuase of PVP Blizz get off your lazy asses and start scripting shit to do 1 thing in pvp and a complete other in pve.

QFT

[The-B-Man]

Someone at Blizz needs to play a Warrior and then tell us that they are in a good spot.

[ymann]

I dont have any problems with my warrior tank,neither dps or aggro problems,a tanks dps should be under the last dps on the list,there should be,there it is.aggro problems? rofl if you have aggro problems,that means you are a bad tank,you suck at your role,so re-role,go dps.Also means that you stuffed yourself with loads of avoidance,and after the mob is missed you 3 times or you dodged or blocked a few attacks or so,he instantly runs to kill your healer,or the next one on the aggro list.As for dps,having dual spec arms,and i am very happy of it,if you figure out a good rotation,not everytime same buttons,but if you learn your swings,you can be top dps with the same gear as DK' and feral or rogues.Dont have the best dps gear,but i am doing a decent job with what i have now.As for tanking,l2p.instead of QQ-ing and complaining.

I see no problem in having aggro on multiple targets,you have thunderclap,shockwave,demo shout,comon you must be stupid not to keep aggro with at least those only.And if there will be one mob running away from you,there is nothing more fun then to charge that mob,or intervene that person targeted by mob,and voíla,aggro is back.Also remind your group to stick to killing order.

What do you want blizz to do?
a) putting battle shout 1 hour duration? ( dont be lazy,hit that button every 2-3 minutes)
b) making you a special aggro button,just push it and all mobs during that encounter will aggro you 100% ? you would like that i know,but where the fun in that?
c) rage,you have a lot of that? spam heroic strike,you dont have rage? dont spam heroic strike.Just learn how,when to use your abilities and you will have rage all the time.

I am not the best warrior in the world,but at least i am not complaining about it.
Warriors ftw.

[xSaix]

Is it NEW to you guys that the entire Blizz team plays rogues and paladins?

Can't wait for hunter Q&A; that'll be filled with more bullcrap attempts at trying to sweep a class' problems under the rug. We're currently the worst in PvP at the moment, and now that lock n' load is getting nerfed, even WORSE. OOOH WE GET THREE TRAPS THOUGHHHH! One crappy snake trap and a fire trap, when traps get resisted half the damn time.

Enough of the hunter QQ though.

I also have a prot warrior, and now I wish I had rolled a prot paladin. Our threat is terrible in comparison to the other tanks, and fury is laughable. Funny how they didn't talk about fury, despite the numerous posts about it....lol. Even arms, which they consider to be in "good" shape, doesn't do as much damage as rogues/hunters/every other DPS class.