FR on Hodir

[Zilthuras]

So to get straight to the query, what's the opinion on this topic? A few people I've run with have been very apathetic about it- to the point of not having any at all. It seems to me like people treat Hodir like Sapphiron, which is a bit of a jump. I've heard the "It's been done before"s and the "Don't really need it."s.

So what does the MMO-Champ community think? Is it less of a gamble than I consider?

[Teneal]

The raid doesn't really need it at all. Did it with my guild for the first time with none (except the frost tank of course) and didn't have any issues. Plus the fight is supposed to be a bit of a DPS race anyway.

EDIT: Should add that my guild is nowhere near the hardcore ones so no it doesn't require any super awesome gear to do it with no frost resist either ^.^

[Kayvas]

in my guid nobody but the tank use the frost ress, and as i tank myself i use 1 or 0 pieces in 10 men and 1 or 2 pieces on 25 men, obviously that resistance is for the frozen blow

[Bareno]

Most of our raiders (at least on 10) while learning it did use about 1-2 pieces of FR gear, helped quite an bit, but that was it. Now we don't even bother with it anymore.

[Lysah]

The raid doesn't need it at all. An offtank might, but very good guilds can bypass this requirement as well. My guild just ran in and killed him out first time (with a few wipes... >>), frozen blows is manageable; assuming people aren't getting hit by anything else, it'll be all the raid damage there is.

I expect they're saving frost fights for icecrown, much like shadow fights in BT.

[shiftynou]

To start off, it's probably good to have the MT use some, but the aura/totem or even just Mark of the Wild is fine for the rest of the raid.

[Gasillio]

In 10s our Tank wears 3pc, our healers wear 1-2. I think that's for the frozen blows to need less healing so we can push hardmode (we do). I'm not sure why the healers really do it, I'm a mage >.<

In 25s we are still doing progression (no Yogg slain yet) so it is recommended that everyone wears 1-2 pieces and tank is required to wear three.


Cheers

[praanz]

You don't need frost resistance at all because there's no spikey frost dmg.

It's alot easier to just tell your raid to move between every cast (or jump if you're melee) to deal with the frost dmg. I.e ...no burst, just a controllable amount - hence no need to resist shit.

The tank however does take a spikey dmg but that can also be dealt with by cycling cooldowns. A DK just pops Anti-Magic Shell/Icebound Fortitude and its not a big problem anymore. Healers can help with a Pain Supression or Guardian Spirit. It's essentially the same thing as a Plasma Blast on Mimiron and we don't see anyone recommending resistance gear there right? Same thing with flame patches on the floor during hard mode Mimiron... noone suggest FR-gear to counter it... because it's controlled if the raid plays decently.

Thorim f.ex is another issue - there you can have frost nova/frost bolt/chain lightning combos that can hit extremely hard and very fast... I'd rather suggest the raid wears one piece FrR-gear on Thorim than I would on Hodir.

[Mystiç]

For 10man Hardmode the tank uses 2 peice (Druid tank) and the rest of the raid run without any.

[Zilthuras]

Praanz, you make a solid point (Appreciate the feedback), but I just find one thing: All there is right now is Frost Resist. I'm sure if there was more resist gear for the sort of things Mimiron does (Fought him before, always die on the 3rd phase, mumble grumble.), folks would be tossing it on as they do with Hodir. Also, the situations I'm mentioning are progression. Not quite farm status yet.

What about melee-heavy situations? That's got to hurt the damage output on Hodir himself with the running and breaking free the frozen NPCs.

[Chaosorb]

The raid doesn't need it at all. An offtank might, but very good guilds can bypass this requirement as well. My guild just ran in and killed him out first time (with a few wipes... >>), frozen blows is manageable; assuming people aren't getting hit by anything else, it'll be all the raid damage there is.

I expect they're saving frost fights for icecrown, much like shadow fights in BT.

Why the hell would you need or want an off tank for Hodir.

[Dedweight]

Why the hell would you need or want an off tank for Hodir.

I don't know, maybe if the Main Tank dies on progression fights and they don't want to wipe it because one person died?

[Gasillio]

Also, the situations I'm mentioning are progression. Not quite farm status yet.

I recommend FR for learning the fight. Definitely

[trainwreck]

lawl frost resist

its not necessary AT ALL

theres no way youre even getting close to hard mode either if you have dps wearing FR

[Brunevde]

maybe just maybe they are trying to get the fight down the first time and are not worried about hard mode and/or not geared enough to even give a shit about hard modes?

[Niroshi]

For 10man atleast FR on anyone is kind of a waste, unless they changed this recently during Frozen Blows the Frost damage never applies (to the tank)* if you fully block or absorb the physical hit. Not hard to do.

*Edited.

[Oddeye]

lawl frost resist

its not necessary AT ALL

theres no way youre even getting close to hard mode either if you have dps wearing FR

Incredible.

Every time I have ran it, only the tank wears Frost Resistance gear. Usually three pieces. If you have DPS dying because they are taking too much damage from Frozen Blows, then have them toss on a piece or two. It won't hinder their damage that much and relieves some of the strain on the healers. When your healers get better gear, or get better at the encounter altogether, you won't need Frost Resistance gear at all. Except the tank, of course.

[brokenmirror]

I don't know, maybe if the Main Tank dies on progression fights and they don't want to wipe it because one person died?

Why would you need an offtank? That's just gimping your dps.

Replace your healers if you can't 3 heal hodir (25).

maybe just maybe they are trying to get the fight down the first time and are not worried about hard mode and/or not geared enough to even give a shit about hard modes?

You act like hardmode is different. 1-2 less healers, and have everyone actually playing their class correctly and it's easy.

[Bigslick]

You act like hardmode is different. 1-2 less healers, and have everyone actually playing their class correctly and it's easy.

And what, you're suggesting that the first few times you put in efforts on 'regular' Hodir you should just be doing hard mode? If you haven't successfully gotten past Hodir, you're not terribly well geared yet. Also, yes, it is different. Hodir in regular mode is not a difficult fight to master, but coordinating the storm buffs, use of haste columns, timely release of npc's, etc is not something people get down the first time they walk into the place. If you're foregoing the DPS race for hard mode, it's a very forgiving fight. There's a difference between playing their class correctly in general and playing the class correctly for the encounter. When entering in with only naxx, 10-man ulduar, and early 25-man ulduar gear it is not a complete cakewalk to begin with, and hitting it in hard mode in that gear would be extremely difficult.

Though I do agree that there is no need whatsoever for dps / healers to wear FR when simply moving around will eliminate much of the damage without gimping DPS. Not so bad for a tank to wear some FR to cut the healers some slack when learning and having to provide extra healing to the dps while they're still coming to terms with the fight - but be cautious about the tank wearing too much and gimping his/her threat generation. This can be a big issue when dps starts pulling upwards of 10-15k dps in hard mode efforts down the line.

[Lilija]

Incredible.

Every time I have ran it, only the tank wears Frost Resistance gear. Usually three pieces. If you have DPS dying because they are taking too much damage from Frozen Blows, then have them toss on a piece or two. It won't hinder their damage that much and relieves some of the strain on the healers. When your healers get better gear, or get better at the encounter altogether, you won't need Frost Resistance gear at all. Except the tank, of course.

I wonder how bad gear people need to have to die from Frozen Blows. From my experience if people die on Hodir it's their stupidity - nothing more (well, occassionally a slow dispell but then again still someone's l2p issue). Using FR gear on Hodir except for MT is only to cover for people's incompetence and that should never be done - even while learning. If people don't get killed by things that would normally kill them they will never learn how to avoid them. So in the long run this kind of approach only makes things harder for the raiding group.