Taunt + threat confusion

[Leonhart]

WTF guys, the OP just clearly explained on how and why taunt mechanics works. In details. Just read it and learn to use it effectively. Stop trying to mock them with silly stuff. And to the previous poster, Chenz, if in your raids person tankin the mob and the person with the highest threat is not the same person, then go find better tanks.

Or maybe you need to find better dps?

Many a times there is gimicks to make dps higher. Iron Council's rune of power, Hodir, General. Its not surprising for a range dps to be pushing up to 120% of the tank's threat.

[draticus]

When you taunt a mob, you are immediately placed on the top of his threat list. If you do not follow up your taunt with something that generates threat, any dps/healer aggro will put you above this. If you wait for your taunt to expire without ever touching the mob, it will refocus the second highest threat. Spells like CS and MB and DS do the first part, without the second part. You will top the threat until the spell expires, but no amount of outgoing TPS from you will make you remain at the top.

A mob will never go back to attacking the second highest threat. They will only switch target when someone exceeds the current targets threat by 110/130%. I have no clue what you're trying to say towards the end of your post. I think you're saying that taunts add temporary threat - which is wrong. And then you say that no amount of outgoing threat from you can keep you at the top of the threat list? That makes no sense.

If you taunt and gain 10k threat making your threat 50k and then you do nothing your threat will remain 50k. Other people will be generating more threat though and they will surpass 55k and gain aggro. The 10k threat you gained from the taunt will never go away whether you hit the mob again or not.

No. It doesn't give you as much threat as the one with the most threat on the mob, it gives you as much threat as the one tanking the mob. As a tank, you most certainly should know the difference.

Splitting hairs, technically my wording there was wrong and some out there may not have understood what I meant. When you taunt your threat becomes equal to the person who currently has aggro (not necessarily the tank since we're being technical) and in some rare cases that person isn't #1 because someone else has passed them on threat but has not yet stolen aggro.

This will never be the case on Archavon though. I've never seen the main tank not be able to out threat dps. The OT often has problems because hes not being attacked so he needs to taunt off the main tank before Arch picks the main tank up. This was my point. The fact that the OT gains permanent threat when he taunts off the MT is the commonly misunderstood factor here and is the reason why I started this thread.

Reminder of definitions:
Aggro - means the creature is attacking you. It is not a value. You don't create more aggro than someone else. You either have aggro or you don't. Only one person can have aggro at a time.

Threat - a measurable value such as 5k, 50k, 1 million. Use Omen to see exactly how much threat everyone in the group has on current target. You generate amounts of threat by doing things such as healing or attacking. When you taunt your threat value becomes equal to the person who currently has aggro. Most tank taunt abilities also force the target to keep attacking you for 3 seconds even if someone else surpasses your threat and would normally steal aggro. The point of this thread is that the tank taunts make your threat equal to the person with aggro and the threat you gain from that is permanent.

[GlassShardx]

The amount of misinformation here is amazing.

First off. Taunting a mob puts you at the top of the aggro list. It immediately gives you aggro equal to the person with most threat on the boss and some taunts even force the mob to attack you for a duration. It does not just give you threat equal to whoever is tanking the boss, because there are situations where a ranged dps is riding 109% threat while having the MT tank the boss. In this case, taunting will give you aggro equal to that dps, this mechanic is one of the ways a tank can hold aggro on Hodir hard mode with dps going all out.

Second. Because many taunts force the mob to attack you, and give you threat equal to the top threat target, it is vital that you do something to produce aggro after you taunt in order to maintain that threat lead once the debuff wears off. The debuff forces the mob to attack you and the debuff itself is temporary, but the threat gained from the taunt is permanent.

Example - Tank A is afk and has 0 threat. Tank B is at 50k threat, and ranged DPS is at 54k threat. Because it takes 110% threat for a ranged to pull aggro, the boss will be attacking Tank B. If tank A wakes up and taunts at this moment, he his threat will jump to 54k and the boss will be forced to attack him by the debuff.

At this point, there are multiple things that can occur. If both tanks do nothing after taunting, and ranged DPS stops,  tank B will remain at 54k threat (the amount of threat the taunt gave him to equal the dps), and the boss will continue to attack him after the debuff wears off.

If both tanks do nothing, but dps continues and hits 60k threat, the boss will instead attack the dps (do to it reaching 110% threat) and then after dps is dead, go back to tank B instead of tank A.

This shows you why you must produce threat after taunting. Its because when you taunt and are put on the top of the list, you have to remember that whoever was on top before you, is still producing aggro. If you can't outthreat that person, then the boss will go back to them after the debuff is off. The threat you gain is permanent, but because people will always produce some kind of threat, you must produce more then them to maintain the lead that taunt gives you.

Its not really that complicated, but just to slightly correct the person above me. Taunt does not give you threat equal to whomever has aggro. It gives you threat equal to whomever is on top of the list. The two are not always the same due to the way ranged dps and threat work.

[Grizzled]

The amount of misinformation here is amazing.

First off. Taunting a mob puts you at the top of the aggro list. It immediately gives you aggro equal to the person with most threat on the boss and some taunts even force the mob to attack you for a duration. It does not just give you threat equal to whoever is tanking the boss, because there are situations where a ranged dps is riding 109% threat while having the MT tank the boss. In this case, taunting will give you aggro equal to that dps, this mechanic is one of the ways a tank can hold aggro on Hodir hard mode with dps going all out.

Second. Because many taunts force the mob to attack you, and give you threat equal to the top threat target, it is vital that you do something to produce aggro after you taunt in order to maintain that threat lead once the debuff wears off. The debuff forces the mob to attack you and the debuff itself is temporary, but the threat gained from the taunt is permanent.

Example - Tank A is afk and has 0 threat. Tank B is at 50k threat, and ranged DPS is at 54k threat. Because it takes 110% threat for a ranged to pull aggro, the boss will be attacking Tank B. If tank A wakes up and taunts at this moment, he his threat will jump to 54k and the boss will be forced to attack him by the debuff.

At this point, there are multiple things that can occur. If both tanks do nothing after taunting, and ranged DPS stops,  tank B will remain at 54k threat (the amount of threat the taunt gave him to equal the dps), and the boss will continue to attack him after the debuff wears off.

If both tanks do nothing, but dps continues and hits 60k threat, the boss will instead attack the dps (do to it reaching 110% threat) and then after dps is dead, go back to tank B instead of tank A.

This shows you why you must produce threat after taunting. Its because when you taunt and are put on the top of the list, you have to remember that whoever was on top before you, is still producing aggro. If you can't outthreat that person, then the boss will go back to them after the debuff is off. The threat you gain is permanent, but because people will always produce some kind of threat, you must produce more then them to maintain the lead that taunt gives you.

Its not really that complicated, but just to slightly correct the person above me. Taunt does not give you threat equal to whomever has aggro. It gives you threat equal to whomever is on top of the list. The two are not always the same due to the way ranged dps and threat work.

you are right besides your percentages.  110% for melee to pull off, 130% (but have seen 125% on Hodir) for ranged to pull off.

[draticus]

The amount of misinformation here is amazing.

First off. Taunting a mob puts you at the top of the aggro list. It immediately gives you aggro equal to the person with most threat on the boss and some taunts even force the mob to attack you for a duration. It does not just give you threat equal to whoever is tanking the boss

I need to test this then because others have insisted in the past that it makes your threat equal to the target of the boss, not the highest threat. Chenz repeated this above, and before I posted I double checked the threat mechanics guide on elitist jerks AND wowwiki and they too say it makes your threat equal to the person with aggro and that is not necessarily the highest threat.

wowwiki - "The threat level of the character who used the taunting ability is immediately raised to be equal to the threat level of whoever currently has aggro, if the taunting character's threat is lower. "

Elitist Jerks - "You are given threat equal to the mob's previous aggro target, permanently. Importantly, you won't necessarily get as much threat as the highest person on the mob's list, only as much as whoever is currently tanking it."

You are the first and only source I can find saying it does make you equal to the #1 rather than the aggro target. Do you have a source for this? I'll grab two people and test it some time tomorrow just to be sure.

[draticus]

I tested righteous defense and hand of reckoning and neither of the bumbed me up to the #1 who was at 120% of the aggro target so wowwiki and elitist jerks are correct. Taunting makes your threat equal to the aggro targets threat, not the highest threat.