Patch 3.3 Retribution Paladin FAQ

[Prentice]

A general rule is that you'll use CS first to stack Formidable, then place DS first afterward.

Fixt

[Ronark]

Fixt

Thanks :P

[Arctagon]

An excellent overview of paladin statistics. I thank thee, Ronark.

Edit: By the way, on point 4, [4SCS], should it not 'Stat Conversions' instead of 'Stat Conversations'? I think you were a tad too hastened there. x3

[sparks]

In compatable T9 gear how do you rate a ret build to the damage from a DK?

I don't use ret any more since I am mainly protection. But this weekend I got asked to dps.
Needless to say I was poor LOL

Thanks big time for this guide Ronark I need to respec and get some ret gear.
I guess I need to anyway since I assume that in Cata we will have to be ret on leveling in the expansion.

[Spott]

Seeing that in PvP my ret pally dmg is like 66% and magical is 33%, would stacking arp make me hit harder, and in Pve i want to stack arp becuase every other melee class is doing it too (w/ the exception of shamans becuase they are only around for blust/hero) but i dont want other ppl to make fun of, so i thought i would bring it up on a Ret Pally page, /discuss!

[Nillo]

/discuss!

I think you are stupid - discussion ends.

[Spott]

woh buddy, maybe i was thinking outside the box? no need for insults

[iktankniet]

woh buddy, maybe i was thinking outside the box? no need for insults

you never should stack arP as ret paladin. even for PVP.

[Deleted]

Hey!

I made this video guide and some guys in my guild and some friends told me that i should maybe show it on this site since it could be a usefull vid. If you like it then u can share it with others if u dissagree with something tell me and lets discuss it and then i could redo the miss if there is any, and if you dont like it at all then simple delete this :P

I hope you will like it !
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJxKUaKKmQE

/Ruki

[Ronark]

I'm looking to update (or rather, create a sub-section FAQ) for all the Beta information. I am still missing a few key components, such as:

1. Base stats at 80
2. Base stats at 85
3. Stat conversions for Agility and Intellect
4. Hit and Expertise caps at 85
5. Mastery conversions
6. Other useful information which I might have forgotten to add

If anyone has the above, it would be greatly beneficial. As far as I am aware, the level cap is still at 82.

[Badpaladin]

Mastery is looking to be at least a 10% damage increase without any further points spent into retribution so I'd hold off on that stuff until it's been nerfed.

[Ronark]

Mastery is looking to be at least a 10% damage increase without any further points spent into retribution so I'd hold off on that stuff until it's been nerfed.

I'm looking more for a X Mastery Points gives 1 Mastery type conversions- Again, this would have to be at 85, but based on the conversion rate of previous levels I can make an educated guess of where that said conversion might be at 85.

[Badpaladin]

Ahh, didn't know what you meant. Tell requital to level up faster on beta!

[Ronark]

Ahh, didn't know what you meant. Tell requital to level up faster on beta!

Indeed. That is also why I have the Item Stat Weights and recommended enchantments and gemming blank (for the most part)- Is Mastery worth ore per point than Strength? Than Crit? These sort of question will most likely not be relieved until 3.4 or 4.0 hits Live.

[Spott]

check it! most recent talent tree build! for ret pallies, imo http://www.wowtal.com/#k=7BwaE4kM.9q4.paladin

[Grimbold21]

Is anyone here using CLCret? I've recently installed it but no matter what, cant get it to work. Seems broken or smth.

[underdogba]

Critical Strike[/b] = Increases your chance to Critically Hit with attacks for 200% damage. While most of the Paladin’s abilities are Melee-oriented, some abilities (like Exorcism) are Spell-oriented; Thus, they only hit for 50% additional damage instead of 100%. For every 45.91 points of Critical Strike rating, you will gain an additional 1% chance to Crit. Although there is no Hard or Soft Cap for Crit, a minimum of 30% chance to Crit is usually recommended. Also, Critical Strike Rating gradually gets worse as you obtain more- That is, you will see a less of an effect if you went from 50% to 55% Crit than if you went from 15% to 20% Crit.

I think you should reconsider how the last idea in this section is worded, because strictly-speaking it's mathematically incorrect. Crit does not actually suffer from any kind of diminishing returns.

For example let's take the generalized case of a single attack, where y is the total damage over 100 hits, x is the average expected number of crits over those 100 attacks, and d is a constant that represents the damage of a single non-crit attack.

y = d(100-x) + 2dx

If we were to manipulate this algebraically into a slope-intercept form we get --

y = (2d-1)x + 100d

This is a perfectly linear relationship, and in fact if we take the first derivative, we get a constant, y' = 2d-1.

There are some valid points that maybe bear some relationship to the statement "Critical Strike Rating gradually gets worse as you obtain more". Two that immediately come to my head are --

- Mechanics: at very low levels of crit, adding additional crit triggers effects related to mechanics and becomes more valueable to net dps, but in general this is trivial. For example, you will get 100% uptime on Vengeance at very low crit levels, making the observation moot as far as secondary stat decisions on endgame gear.

- Actual dps increase versus percentage dps increase: the value of additional crit as far as a percentage dps increase does go down, but the additional damage of x points of crit is a constant. This way of looking at it is basically confusing a function with its first derivate.

- Relative value of crit versus other stats: as you get more crit it's entirely mathematically possible that its relative value as compared to other stats goes down, but that does not reflect crit becoming objectively less valuable, it involves other stats becoming relatively more valueable.

In summary, maybe I'm being a little nitpicky, but I feel like the imprecise way that the passage is worded is very likely to give people mistaken ideas of the underlying mathematics of how crit works.

[Deleted]

y = d(100-x) + 2dx

y = (2d-1)x + 100d

i think those 2 formulas give different results. taking a base value of 2500 for d and 50 for x, as well as linking the formula's:

2500*(100-50)+2*2500*50 = (2*2500-1)*50+100*2500
125000+250000 = 249950+250000
375000 =/=499950

taking a base value of 40 for X:

2500*(100-40)+2*2500*40 = (2*2500-1)*40+100*2500
350000 =/= 449960

basically, your first formula scales linearly with crit chance, your second scales inversely.

the error you made, basically, was not multiplying d with x when you worked out the parentheses. i'm leaving out the y here for ease of writing.

d(100-x)+2dx
100d-dx + 2dx (100*2500-2500*50 + 2*2500*50 = 375000)
(2d-d)x + 100d ((2*2500-2500)*50 + 100*2500 = 375000)
dx+100d (2500*50 + 100*2500 = 375000)
d(x+100) (2500*(50+100) = 375000)

but you are right. if you take the second to last formula, and take the derivative, you end up with d.