Is this enough DPS for a Cat?

[alexellice]

With over 2k views now and 19 replies..

My origional assumption from reading the cat forums was that cat DPS in forums at least seems to be over represented by HC guilds, very talented players or bullshitters...

I have taken the advice on the cat rotaion (priorty list), and only work with bleeds on the dummy.. DPS remained at 4k. This is without using Beserk. No clipping of rake and rip... (let them fall of while having enough energy to reapply straight away, means u might stand still auto attacking for 5 - 10 secs)and using shred as a filler..

Beleive it or not, It took me a few hours of going from 3.2k DPS (down from 4k with FB and Besererk) to 4k using just bleeds.. thats 800 DPS from timing things right. The next step is to make sure i use Beserk at the "correct" time.. ie: make sure i have the energy to ultilize the DPS boost available.

The above information is what i was origionally looking for with regards to DPS being low for my gear lvl. I do however believe that there are MANY other cats that are in my position that have spammed yellow attacks when they became available. I just wish u guys would come out of the closet and participate in the discussion... U will not get any better by sitting there and reading... go back to basics like i did.. re-learn cat.. it has really helped. Post what u did.. and how u did it..

With regards to the weapon enchant, i have the scroll for beserking in my bags every time we start ulduar on a thursday evening in the hope twisted visage drops soon.

[Sunshine]

My origional assumption from reading the cat forums was that cat DPS in forums at least seems to be over represented by HC guilds, very talented players or bullshitters...

I think there are a couple things at work, and it's not necessarily intentional...

First, people tend to report their dps on XT or Hodir, which both have damage buffs (XT's heart takes double damage, and Hodir has unpredictable buffs from storm cloud, the moonbeams, etc), or Vezax, which actually has a damage loss (due to 20% attack speed debuff, which in turn makes for less ooc procs and therefore fewer shreds and higher relative bleed damage). These are some of the most stationary fights in Ulduar, so it makes sense that people want to use them as benchmarks. Just make sure to take the numbers with a grain of salt, and don't compare them relative to anything but each other.

Second, we gain quite a bit from raid buffs, probably even moreso than other classes, thanks to the various scaling talents (SotF, iMotW, HotW, etc) and the fact that we get AP from multiple stats.

Besides these points, there's the issue of testing armor pen / agi on dummies -- dummies have 0 armor, so armor pen is completely wasted and it will appear that agi is far superior where a raid boss would show the opposite. -- see next posts

If you wanted a test of something closer to reality, you could grab a tank friend for Thrym, or something of the sort.

Your advice on how to work up from the basics is good.

[Alski]

Besides these points, there's the issue of testing armor pen / agi on dummies -- dummies have 0 armor, so armor pen is completely wasted and it will appear that agi is far superior where a raid boss would show the opposite.

you will find that the dummys do have armor, they are exact replicas of the appropriate level monsters in reguards to armor dodge and parry. Go out and test with your ArP trinket if you dont believe me :P

[Sunshine]

you will find that the dummys do have armor, they are exact replicas of the appropriate level monsters in reguards to armor dodge and parry.

Ah, I remembered wrong then! Or maybe I just read wrong data... So according to other sources, boss dummy has 10643 armor, whereas raid boss mobs (in Naxx, at least) have 13083 armor... or maybe they're also wrong. Seems that there are lots of pages with conflicting info. I'll believe you though.

Go out and test with your ArP trinket if you dont believe me :P

You should convince Thorim to drop a few of them (I'm in line behind a rogue or two), or tell stupid greens warriors / hunters to stop stealing grim toll. > I wish I had one!

[alexellice]

While on the dummy, i see my shred increase in dmg when grim troll procs.. this is evidence of armour.. how much though i dont know

[Algorres]

Before an actual answer can be had there are a few questions that need to be asked. Do you raid with a feral tank/arms warrior? Do you have an enhancement shaman and ret pally with improved might? What food do you use? What flask do you use? Do you have a blood dk in your raid to cast hysteria on you? What is your normal latency? Do you have all your abilities bound to keys?

You also say your dps drops in movement fights when it should not really make a difference other than fights where you are forced to stop and start your dps. If you really want a breakdown of what you are doing post a wws of a full ulduar run.

[bluetonberry]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Bluetonberry

Here is my armory ppl say i should be doing way more 6k on XT try to kep my bleeds up as much as possible but maybe i need to hit the test dummie i just started going feral 2 months ago

[bluetonberry]

another question should i have a set dps on test dummies as well?

[Alski]

another question should i have a set dps on test dummies as well?

~4.3k for that gear imo. Also note being feral for "only" 2 months is no excuse, you can learn how to dps with a certain class/spec in 30mins of reading and then perfecting it on a dummy for another 30mins.

[Haioken]

If savage roar and rip fall off at the same time and you have 5 combo points. Put rip up and get a 2-3 (3 if crit) savage roar up and continue. That upped my dps a bit from when I was at a crossroads before.

[Sunshine]

If savage roar and rip fall off at the same time and you have 5 combo points. Put rip up and get a 2-3 (3 if crit) savage roar up and continue. That upped my dps a bit from when I was at a crossroads before.

You're getting a rip with 30% less damage that way, though, if you're applying rip after both SR and the old rip fall off. If you see SR and rip are going to fall off at the same time, you can always refresh SR early with 1-2 cps, then build cps for a full point rip.

[bluetonberry]

I took some of your advise and hit the test dummy for a whole hr i went from 3.2 to 4.1 i was like wow my dps was already good i cant wait for ULd tonight this is why i went feral makes me think pushing 3 buttons a whole fight is boring lol

[Haioken]

Well from what I noticed since savage roar isn't AP anymore just damage that when I applied Rip while savage roar was down it ticked for (random number here) 1500 and when I put savage roar up immediately after that tick it ticked for 2k. I could be mistaken but that's what I'm pretty sure I keep seeing.

[getefix]

Well from what I noticed since savage roar isn't AP anymore just damage that when I applied Rip while savage roar was down it ticked for (random number here) 1500 and when I put savage roar up immediately after that tick it ticked for 2k. I could be mistaken but that's what I'm pretty sure I keep seeing.

why would you expect it not to? Rip is based off Attack power anyway, and the SR change was made in 3.1. Almost everyone on this board is wayyyy ahead of you.

[Sunshine]

Well from what I noticed since savage roar isn't AP anymore just damage that when I applied Rip while savage roar was down it ticked for (random number here) 1500 and when I put savage roar up immediately after that tick it ticked for 2k. I could be mistaken but that's what I'm pretty sure I keep seeing.

As I just posted in another thread, I just tested this on a training dummy. Bleed damage is determined at the application of the bleed -- this is how it's always worked for trinkets/procs/etc. Applying SR in the middle of the bleed doesn't change its damage; it affects only new bleeds. You may have just seen a crit, or maybe throttling on non-blizzard combat text (e.g., MSBT) or something?

[Igotrabies]

Since I MT for my guild I can only roll on DPS as Off Spec. At the moment I have solid gear... I think anyways. The only pieces I have that are from Naxx any more are T7.5 chest and legs for the expertise and set bonus. The Patchwork belt and the Rip Idol. The rest is from 10 man Ulduar minus the Bracers from FL 25 man and Twisted Visage.

Currently Hit and Expertise capped with 7.4k AP, 54 crit chance and an abysmal 100 something Armor Pen. Currently I do, on AVG, 6-6.5k dps on most melee friendly fights. I do 7.5 - 8k on XT, 9.5-10k on Hodir and 6.5 -7k on Freya. I don't know why people struggle with the Freya fight. I rack up the DPS during the 40+ exploding plant adds with Beserk, Savage Roar, Tigers Fury every CD and improved swipe. I see a sea of 4ks flying into the air. I have to change my boxers everytime after that fight (lil sticky) because it a thing of beauty seeing all that damage and hearing my guild go WTF are you doing... the meters are going crazy.

If there is a lot of movement or switching between targets keeping up Savage Roar is KEY. When you have to release the helpfull adds on hodir, use savage roar. Don't let those combo points go to waste then when it's boss time guess what you have active already. BOO YAH

To the original poster (All cats as well) there is only 2 times I ever use FB in a fight. They are as follows:

1. Beserk is active and you just applied Savage roar and Rip.
2. You have just applied rip with MORE then 12 secs left on Savage Roar WITH Tigers Fury off of CD.

Too many times Rip or Savage roar (or both >.<) and your dps take a huge dip.

[Sunshine]

1. Beserk is active and you just applied Savage roar and Rip.

I believe you should avoid FB during Berserk, because the energy will be better suited to extra shreds. Unless they fixed it, the energy cost of the extra energy conversion is *not* halved, so you'll still use 30 extra energy (which is 1.5 shreds during berserk instead of just part of a shred). And if you're low enough on energy that you won't use any extra (about 17.5 energy), then you didn't use berserk at high enough energy (because you want every possible gcd in use during berserk, and you'll have to wait for energy after the FB).

[Couga]

I believe you should avoid FB during Berserk, because the energy will be better suited to extra shreds. Unless they fixed it, the energy cost of the extra energy conversion is *not* halved, so you'll still use 30 extra energy (which is 1.5 shreds during berserk instead of just part of a shred). And if you're low enough on energy that you won't use any extra (about 17.5 energy), then you didn't use berserk at high enough energy (because you want every possible gcd in use during berserk, and you'll have to wait for energy after the FB).

So would it be better to refresh SR (no matter how long it has left) and then keep shredding, or just keep shredding, which would seem like a waste of combo points?

[Sunshine]

So would it be better to refresh SR (no matter how long it has left) and then keep shredding, or just keep shredding, which would seem like a waste of combo points?

From what I've read (by nightcrowler, etc), they just keep shredding (or rake/mangle/SR if those run out, of course).&#160; I think the exception might be if you're near the end of berserk, when you know that you can't use up all of your available energy pool.&#160;

Even though it seems like a waste of CPs, each FB during berserk costs up to 47.5 energy**, which is enough for just over 2 shreds.&#160; In a simplified format, if your average shred crits for 9k and your average FB crits for 16k, 9k * 2.x > 16k.&#160; (Of course there's more math to be added for reg. hits, crit rate, and so on, but the consensus among people who have actually done the math seems to be that you should just shred.)

** Of course if you'd have less than 47.5 energy, it would use less, but you really should try to avoid running out of energy during a berserk so that you can use every gcd.

[getefix]

From what I've read (by nightcrowler, etc), they just keep shredding (or rake/mangle/SR if those run out, of course). I think the exception might be if you're near the end of berserk, when you know that you can't use up all of your available energy pool.

Even though it seems like a waste of CPs, each FB during berserk costs up to 47.5 energy**, which is enough for just over 2 shreds. In a simplified format, if your average shred crits for 9k and your average FB crits for 16k, 9k * 2.x > 16k. (Of course there's more math to be added for reg. hits, crit rate, and so on, but the consensus among people who have actually done the math seems to be that you should just shred.)

** Of course if you'd have less than 47.5 energy, it would use less, but you really should try to avoid running out of energy during a berserk so that you can use every gcd.

If I get a clearcasting proc near the end of my Berserk and TF is off CD then I'll FB.