TTW doesn't seem as good....

[Serafinna]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...re&n=Serafinna

Check my primary and secondary talents.

I've been trying the TTW spec for some time, rotation being scorchx5, LB, fireball, pyroblast when hot streak procs.
I can hit 3.7k dps in my current gear self buffed and can maintain mana pretty well. (on training dummies however this also pretty much applies to raiding situation)

However in my arcane spec I can hit 4.3k dps on the dummies and manage to keep mana up fairly well with well timed evocates and mana gems. My roation in this is ABx3 AB unless ABarr has procc'd

I'm hit capped on both and the stacking of SP applies well to both (if anything TTW spec better)

SO why, not only on dummies, also in a raid situation, can't I do better with TTW considering that arcane is meant to be UP'd compared to TTW/FFB?

Another point being that I've only trialled and tested these in 10 man raids, would that have a big effect? (we have moonkin and ele sham)

[failoth]

TtW won't work on a dummy unless you are applying a slow effect to it, which would hamper your dps.
also, scorchx5? use the scorch glyph imo.

[therealpeni]

dpends on gear and crits, i see ur crit is rlly low, i got 32% fire crit unbuffed, and ain't got that amazing gear tbh.
if you are the only one putting up the 5% crit debuff, pick the glyph for it, drop molten glyph.
the rotation is lb, scorch, fireball spam and pyro when procs, keep scorch and living bomb up.

ttw fire scales better than arcane, and is very reliant on raid buffs / debuffs
your crit is rlly low, no crits --> low dmg / no hot streak procs.

practising the spec helps aswell. i just hate to play arcane due to its downtime.

dps on dummies means nothing tbh

edit: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...r=Eonar&n=Peni (pvp spec though)

[therealpeni]

TtW won't work on a dummy unless you are applying a slow effect to it, which would hamper your dps.
also, scorchx5? use the scorch glyph imo.

true, but same goes then for his arcane spec

[Serafinna]

Had a shaman with me using frost shock
+ On longer fights other glyphs have more viable dps as the scorch only needs to be applied once per boss

[therealpeni]

Had a shaman with me using frost shock
+ On longer fights other glyphs have more viable dps as the scorch only needs to be applied once per boss

well, if u lose the stack, u won't have to worry about reapplying it, + casting 4x scorch extra is already bad as it is.
tbh, i think yer gear is just greatly favoriting arcane atm, low crit etc.
try it when u got a beefy amount of crit imo, for now, maybe lower ur hit to 11%(10%, yer ally)
or, as u say, regularly got a boomkin, 7% hit is enough for u then. the item budget u used on that hit, can be spend in sp and / or haste for yer spec.

had 5.2k dps on todays patchwerk(25), but urgh, was sloppy too, lagg (think 300-600ms and 8-15fps). missin +3% debuff on boss though (got 14% hit chance, with having a spriest/boomkin in mind)

[whiskey_oktober]

some specs scale more then others. its pretty much that simple.

[HellBurn]

You can't really compare specs based on dummies. A lot of factors change in raid encounters.

[Kraix]

use the scorch glyph imo.

No.

[mireigi]

DPS is not everything.

With Arcane you get high DPS while sacrificing some damage. With Fire it's the other way around.

As Arcane I used to do 4.8k DPS @ 14% damage done on most Ulduar bosses.
As Fire I'm doing 4k DPS @ 18% damage done on most Ulduar bosses with the exact same group.

Overall on all bosses I'm doing 2.5 million more damage as Fire than I did as Arcane, even though my DPS is lower.

[imnumber01]

As the above poster pointed out, DPS does not calculate to DMG done...Arcane has no DoT ticking. TTW/Fire has a DoT and the uptime for a good mage should be 95%+. That means every time there is ANY movement whatsoever in a fight Arcane DPS will be inflated and Fire will be deflated. Don't believe me? go to any WWS and multiply the time of the fight by the DPS and see how far off the numbers are...most casters in a non Patch scenario have less than a 100% "DPS Time" or less than 100% "Presence"

Bottom line is if your gear can sustain it TTW/FB > Arcane for dmg done.

[Sedative]

Had a shaman with me using frost shock

I'm just going to take a guess here that you were testing on the Heroic Boss dummy...although I suppose you could've been testing on the low level dummy but then we'd probably see much higher dps than what you stated.

Having said that...there are only a handful of abilities that will trigger TTW on Bosses (due to immunities)

Mage -> Slow
Warrior -> Thunderclap
Paladin -> Judgement of the Just
Death Knight -> Frost Fever
Druid -> Infected Wounds

The only way you could have possibly been getting the 12% damage bonus from TTW in your scenario is if for some reason boss target dummys were coded without the movement imparing immunities that actual bosses are.

ProTip: Bosses are immune to movement slowing effects...whats triggering TTW in the above debuff scenarios is the attack slowing effect.

[hagar4172]

sorry i do not usually come on here and put post challenging poeple but i looked at ur gear for arcane and i just do not see how u doing 4.3k dps on test dummies self buffed. my mage is pretty damn good geared for arcane spec and i am usually top dps in any raid i do and i can't do 4.3k dps on a dummy self buffed. post or screenshot this 4.3k dps on a test dummy

[Mysmere]

DPS is not everything.

With Arcane you get high DPS while sacrificing some damage. With Fire it's the other way around.

As Arcane I used to do 4.8k DPS @ 14% damage done on most Ulduar bosses.
As Fire I'm doing 4k DPS @ 18% damage done on most Ulduar bosses with the exact same group.

Overall on all bosses I'm doing 2.5 million more damage as Fire than I did as Arcane, even though my DPS is lower.

quite possible due to crit dot and living bomb. high dps doesn't always make high dmg

[Elch]

@Serafinna - I hope you raid with less +hit else you are way over hitcap:

+14,71 % from gear +6 % talents = 20,71% hit => 17% hitcap

besides there are lots of raidbuffs. so with arcane you can easy go with about 8% hit gear - 6% talents = 14% and in normall raid enviroment you would be still over hitcap.

I think you put the mark of the war prisoner for doll testing but even without it you would be hitcapped on training doll...

so short = way to much hit.

[errosync]

Scaling scaling scaling. If you have a priest, moonkin, ele sham, mage with FM, scorch/shadowbolt bitch, and are properly flasked/food buffed, Fire scales better and will beat arcane.

As for aid: You have a nutty arcane glyph situation/spec. Move around some points, and that extra point in slow would be better put into more range on arcane spells. The glyphs, also, are bad. You'll want MA and Amiss glyphs instead of Mage Armor and Mana Gem (mage armor glyph doesn't do anything, and mana gem glyph is far too situational). The hitcap is also and issue, but is probably there for fire. Pick up new arcane gear to get the best of it and to shed the overcaping hit. Also, Ablastx3 and AM, proc or not. Abarr only when moving, such as Heigen dance and even Gothik (since that fight doesn't matter anyways). That should up your dps while bring your mana usage totals down.

For fire spec, combustion is still relatively worthless live as fireball does better with more haste after hitcap, and you don't need 41 yard fireballs. Take a point out of both talents and put the 2 points into MoE so you can spend more time casting. Also, just a minor change, flip point values for Arc Med and SotM. More spirit=morecrit=higherburst=lessrng. It's a minor change and not an absolutely game-breaking one. The glyph situation there is fine.

Use dummies as a guide. If you're above 2k/3k on a test dummy normally in any spec, you're doing fine. It will shoot up depending upon buffs attaind in a raid/group setting.