Crippling Poison

[Ormen]

Well the reason for crippling beeing 70% is most likely that rogues lack a short CD distance closer, with a mere 50% they would be very vurnerable to kiting more so than other melee.
a

[Gadirm]

Mage: Blink, Then slow us with frost lance*

Uhm... no?
I think you either thinking of frostbolt (which is not an instant spell) or ice lance (which is an instant spell BUT has no slowing capabilities)
Even if they did do that, whoops there goes the CoS and the rogue i set for the next episode
Then you say "but what if the CoS runs out and he frost novas me in place? oh golly, i haz blind! mage wanders around aimless for a bit and the rogue gets set for round three. Mind you that blink probably still is on cooldown at this point (24 secs if im not mistaken) and so is frost nova, the few things a frost mage can do at this point unless he uses trinket is to ice block and pray to god he dont get stunlocked to fuck.

[TwistedPower]

Crip psn can be dispelled by every healer except for priests. Thus it needs to be slower to make up for the fact that it is somtimes removed prematurly.

[Mr.Sticks]

Uhm... no?
I think you either thinking of frostbolt (which is not an instant spell) or ice lance (which is an instant spell BUT has no slowing capabilities)
Even if they did do that, whoops there goes the CoS and the rogue i set for the next episode
Then you say "but what if the CoS runs out and he frost novas me in place? oh golly, i haz blind! mage wanders around aimless for a bit and the rogue gets set for round three. Mind you that blink probably still is on cooldown at this point (24 secs if im not mistaken) and so is frost nova, the few things a frost mage can do at this point unless he uses trinket is to ice block and pray to god he dont get stunlocked to fuck.

Uhm... yea? Your whole argument proves what a rogue must do to fight a mage this isn't 1 v 1 here and just from your scenario a rogue has burned one major CD and your timing is a bit off blind should be up in another 15 seconds and nova if your smart enough to talent into Ice Floes 3/3 you reduce the CD on nova's by 20% nice right =D...

So continuing off your story the rogue blinded you? ok well next up for him is to leave combat and restealth while your nova breaks around him and a smart rogue will resap to regain control around 12 secs for all this to happen (10 for blind and restealth 2 for resap and proceed to stunlock... well great your shield has absorbed most of the burst and your around 60% at the beginning then its your turn. You repeat that process till you BURN THE ROGUES CD's after that its gg the rogue just has to try and stay on you as best he can negate the damage from time to time with CoS and the game is already favored to you. Theres a reason most "good" mages win in 1 v 1 duels and with arenas its not any different if you both have healers. Oh and please don't even get into double dps...

[Xada]

except theres basically no one who can remove it easily outside of a druid, which is easy for any snare for them. spam cleanse while theres a rogue on you and oom yourself lawlz

Use hand of freedom lawlz

[Dark Side]

you know its pvp crybabys like you who re ruining this game for the pve games. not this particular however but still......crybaby

[Snowulf]

So I was wondering why a Rogues Crippling Poisonhttp://www.wowhead.com/?item=3775 needs to be 70% speed reduction. All other classes have a max of 50% with exception of Deathknights with their Chains of Ice.http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=45524. It has become like an after thought for Rogues to keep their slow dubuffs up. With the Crippling being a 50% chance on hit with no real lost of DPS or Global its very easy to keep the poison on. You can argue that it can be dispelled, but its just get reapplied way to fast sometimes for dispell to be effective. But my beef with Crippling Poison is the amount of it reduces your speed. I feel the time has come for Crippling Poison to join the Homogenized bracket of slows and be a 50% slow. Anyone else agree or disagree. If not explain why it needs to be 70% speed reduction and automatic.

nerf roots, CoI, frost nova, etc...

[Mysmere]

Use hand of freedom lawlz

riiiiiiiiiiiiight. omg i got stunned now what.

[Xada]

riiiiiiiiiiiiight. omg i got stunned now what.

You're the HUMAN, you know what to do, and hopefully you know when to.

[Mysmere]

You're the HUMAN, you know what to do, and hopefully you know when to.

waste my trinket on a stun? kay

[Xada]

know when to

maybe I should add in "if at all". So far you've disregarded a snare and a stun to be "not worth it". I'm starting to wonder if you're part of a cleave team that utilizes burst damage to zerg down another team like a blender.

[Mysmere]

maybe I should add in "if at all". So far you've disregarded a snare and a stun to be "not worth it". I'm starting to wonder if you're part of a cleave team that utilizes burst damage to zerg down another team like a blender.

yep. neither of those are worth it. only worth using on real cc.

and no i dont cleave

[Xada]

Actually, your team does fit the bill, ret/dk/hunt/war and a healer.

[Mysmere]

Actually, your team does fit the bill, ret/dk/hunt/war and a healer.

the 5's team ive played on like twice....?

my 3's is ret/hunter/disc

[Xada]

the 5's team ive played on like twice....?

my 3's is ret/hunter/disc

The three's, the 4 classes that I separated with slashes are interchangeable, there are many variations but they all rely on the same tactic almost. I've read the strats on how to beat cleave teams, your teams and I'm pretty sure your not complaining about a 1v1 and your saving your cd's for something else. Let me ask you a question, when you are facing a rmp comp, how long is it from the beginning of the match to force you into a more defensive approach?

[Mysmere]

The three's, the 4 classes that I separated with slashes are interchangeable, there are many variations but they all rely on the same tactic almost. I've read the strats on how to beat cleave teams, your teams and I'm pretty sure your not complaining about a 1v1 and your saving your cd's for something else. Let me ask you a question, when you are facing a rmp comp, how long is it from the beginning of the match to force you into a more defensive approach?

hunters are never in any "cleave" team ever. cleave is 2 melee. we are a cc and kite team.

we actually have a pretty decent time killing rmp compared to others. unless we fail hard at dispelling cc which happens sometimes we can usually just truck the mage and dispel all the sheeps while cc'ing the priest.

[Xada]

It maybe true that they don't melee, but your still a cleave team because your strategy is to burn down a target as fast as you possibly can. Also don't lie about your 3's, I don't see you winning alot against rmp comps that aren't pretty low in ratings or have disbanded(YES, I am bored enough to view your matches, one of the disadvantages of having sutures up your leg). In fact, I don't see you facing that many rmp comps. Also, you haven't even told us the full story, have you? What else is there that you are saving cd's for? I'm sure you don't lose that many 1v1's against rogues unless you allow them to run away and stealth.

[Mysmere]

It maybe true that they don't melee, but your still a cleave team because your strategy is to burn down a target as fast as you possibly can. Also don't lie about your 3's, I don't see you winning alot against rmp comps that aren't pretty low in ratings or have disbanded(YES, I am bored enough to view your matches, one of the disadvantages of having sutures up your leg). In fact, I don't see you facing that many rmp comps. Also, you haven't even told us the full story, have you? What else is there that you are saving cd's for? I'm sure you don't lose that many 1v1's against rogues unless you allow them to run away and stealth.

honestly we used to try and burn rogues down but recently we've figured out how easy mages are. also we haven't played a lot recently.
no, we cannot just "burn" someone down. any other dps comp is generally much better at this than we are. our hunter spends most of his time kiting so theres not much he does except explosive shot, traps and aimed shot

generally i trinket hex, fear or blind. sometimes sheep. stuns dont last that long on me and i often remove them

[Xada]

honestly we used to try and burn rogues down but recently we've figured out how easy mages are. also we haven't played a lot recently.
no, we cannot just "burn" someone down. any other dps comp is generally much better at this than we are. our hunter spends most of his time kiting so theres not much he does except explosive shot, traps and aimed shot

generally i trinket hex, fear or blind. sometimes sheep. stuns dont last that long on me and i often remove them

Sounds like they're cc'ing the wrong person, but still what is so annoying about crippling poison that it makes you think it should be nerfed even though you have ways to remove it.

[hammybiter]

now if they would only fix charge/intercept range i would partially agree with Mr.Sticks

on the other hand
they normalized all the slows to 50%, except for crippling poison.

i still cant figure out how the argument "rogues are squishy so we need a better snare" works out...
theres plenty of escape/mitigation methods for a rogue without losing much of their dmg -> gouge can give you a second with GCD to push berserker rage to get out of range, vanish, blind, evasion, ghostly strike, stun n run, sprint, dismantle

if your stupid enough to run away from a warrior when he is not CCed, stunned or when you dont use vanish then you deserve to get charged/intercept and bashed in the face...

personally i think crippling poison is fine, 70% slow i can live with
its Deadly brew thats abit strong
2 times wound poison = double dmg
double chance to apply wound poison
double chance to apply crippling poison

and as mentioned before, rogues dont need to worry about gcd/cd on this, so they dont lose DPS like other classes that use slows.
eventhough its dispellable it has a chance to apply on every attack

fear is considered a CC, so is seduce, and you add stuns to locks and not to rogues?
you could atleast get a better list. with either no CC/ohshits or no ones

i would make a list but its to depended on spec/class and the list would be way to long

Any person with a brain will have a bleed/fairy fire/poison on the rogue to stop a vanish like you say.. And evasion tactics are practically useless to range..

Of course that is if you get the opening on the rogue, if the rogue gets the opening on you, you are screwed but by then a competent rogue has you stunlocked most of the fight anyway..