So with the nerfs to ret being so bad to inspire so much butthurt

[dave214]

In pvp without the extra haste buffs, it's worse.

I know socom sucks...but in the new patch sov/soc wasn't supposed to be used for pvp..it's the reason for the "ramp up time".

[omegatrigun]

I know socom sucks...but in the new patch sov/soc wasn't supposed to be used for pvp..it's the reason for the "ramp up time".

Which means they're stuck with a crap dmg seal, and a seal with a crap mechanic.

[cryogenic]

so 7.5 for sunders and then a rend, this is 60 rage you dont start with and thats 9 seconds counting the rend and its not passive.
I have a demo shout to add in there atm so 10.5.
15 secs? what ya got no haste this is a load of garbage you still have more burst, you are using all your moves during this time your losing a slight bit of bonus damage the start of a boss fight your hitting a speed pot before your in combat theres windfury/talons.
unless your an absolute scrub its not taking you 15 seconds in a raid to get those stacks.
Welcome back to actually having to watch procs and push buttons every global or so.

[Fortoss]

How long does it take you to kill a healer now a days? (in PVP) For a target that you know take a sec to kill, SoC isn't that bad of a seal in pvp. Damage increase means bigger heals which means bigger heals........... OOM! Once again ppl tend to forget that different situations calls for different abilities. How many pallies change their auras depending on class fighting? How many switch what they judge on what they need? Why do DK's gem spell pen?

With burst being scaled down and resilience getting buffed, pls tell me how SoC is bad? Oh wait, you can't cause it isn't here yet. Ppl what other hybrid(beside the ALMIGHTY DRUID) can even come close to a well played pally? What other class can survive 3 deaths before they actually die? 3 deaths=Divine Shield,Hand of Protection, and Lay on Hands. Please don't HoP against a mage and then come here and argue this. Cause you some will give that example!

[aetti morkna]

I honestly never thought that Paladins post 3.1 were that overpowered. I think the only thing that needed to be changed was Seal of the Martyr/Blood in pvp. I think they should have left Seal of Command as it was. Maybe this is just the perspective of a death knight, but that's how I felt.

What I don't seem to understand is why rogues are STILL allowed to run around and dominate people. They went through 4 arena seasons where they were invincible, and what did they get for Wrath? A disarm, a snare that's 20% stronger than every other snare and a single-application MS.

[omegatrigun]

so 7.5 for sunders and then a rend, this is 60 rage you dont start with and thats 9 seconds counting the rend and its not passive.
I have a demo shout to add in there atm so 10.5.
15 secs? what ya got no haste this is a load of garbage you still have more burst, you are using all your moves during this time your losing a slight bit of bonus damage the start of a boss fight your hitting a speed pot before your in combat theres windfury/talons.
unless your an absolute scrub its not taking you 15 seconds in a raid to get those stacks.
Welcome back to actually having to watch procs and push buttons every global or so.

15 sec is counting haste. I'm pretty sure windfury doesn't proc seals. Also, you obviously have no idea how much ret dps comes from seals.

[omegatrigun]

pls tell me how SoC is bad? Oh wait, you can't cause it isn't here yet.

Yes it is. It's on the ptrs. The numbers ppl have tested show it's worse than blood is now, and if you get seals of the pure, then righteousness almost beats it even though it can't crit.

[omegatrigun]

What I don't seem to understand is why rogues are STILL allowed to run around and dominate people. They went through 4 arena seasons where they were invincible, and what did they get for Wrath? A disarm, a snare that's 20% stronger than every other snare and a single-application MS.

Because they die in a stiff breeze.

[omegatrigun]

Forbearance.

Also, LoH isn't usable in arena.

[Zerojoe]

After reading alot about this I can say why so many of you are butthurt.
That said i don't think it will be that big of a deal.
Monster health might be buffed to compensate.

[Hattai]

15 sec is counting haste. I'm pretty sure windfury doesn't proc seals. Also, you obviously have no idea how much ret dps comes from seals.

and you obviously have no idea that windfury totem was changed in 3.0.2, it doesnt proc anymore, its a flat 20% melee haste buff

[omegatrigun]

and you obviously have no idea that windfury totem was changed in 3.0.2, it doesnt proc anymore, its a flat 20% melee haste buff

Right, forgot about that. Haven't raided seriously as a melee since TBC.

[skaarrj]

Ret ramp up time=5 auto attacks= ~15 sec
DK ramp up time=diseases up= 2 global cds= 3 sec
rogue ramp up time=getting SnD and rupt up= 4 global cds= 6 sec
warr ram up time= getting rend up= 1gcd= 1.5 sec

So ret's ramp up is about 3x-5x longer than other melee. Yep that's logical.

Any shorter than that and you could use it too effectively for pvp. Which would be bad.

[Hattai]

meh, 20 after talents

[Ninjarobot44]

FotM will re-roll. The paladins who actually care about their class are going to stay.

If Blizz pays attention to movement/switch fights, they'll notice that our DPS is dismal and HOPEFULLY, MAYBE, I'M PRAYING will do something about it. Otherwise... LOLRET.

This.

[Zerojoe]

FotM will re-roll. The paladins who actually care about their class are going to stay.

If Blizz pays attention to movement/switch fights, they'll notice that our DPS is dismal and HOPEFULLY, MAYBE, I'M PRAYING will do something about it. Otherwise... LOLRET.

The FoTM has swamed the class so bad at this point i think your talking about more then half though.

[Fortoss]

Also, LoH isn't usable in arena.

Also forbearance, c'mon really.

To tell me arena is the only pvp? Forbearance wouldn't be up after a divine shield, instant heals(bandage during divine shield if mana is your argument because mana mismanagement is your problem tbh) LoH and HoP?


If your gonna debate be intelligent atleast! To prove some L2Pally, you don't have to they post and show who they really are. I do remember saying something about situational and know what abilites work when.

[Rhonen]

16.
if you troll, please check the numbers you operate with.

Says the troll...

[massacrre]

i havent personally seen the dps differences so far on the PTR, but from what i have read i really dont think its going to be as bad as every1 is saying. Firstly we get double crits which is heaps boner, if u have ever played a DK then u will know how shweet double crits are. secondly i think this is going to scare all the noob ret pallies away e.g one of my mates who literally sits there and hits 123 on his keyboard continually and thats how he plays. retribution should be a challenge not a faceroll (although faceroll is fun).

if you dont like changes, QQ and go play everquest2 or go get a 4strength 4 stam leather belt!

[Rhonen]

Also forbearance, c'mon really.

To tell me arena is the only pvp? Forbearance wouldn't be up after a divine shield, instant heals(bandage during divine shield if mana is your argument because mana mismanagement is your problem tbh) LoH and HoP?


If your gonna debate be intelligent atleast! To prove some L2Pally, you don't have to they post and show who they really are. I do remember saying something about situational and know what abilites work when.

The trolls try so hard...