The problem with the design of Retribution

[zcks]

The problem with the design of retribution is that it relies heavily on seal damage, as much as 50% or more of the damage done by a retribution paladin is done via seals. Whats more this damage is delt passively & relies on RNG for it to work well. This means that the player has no real control over the damage he/she is dealing.
As long as blizzard stays with this design and does not change to to one that has a larger variety of active attacks with varying effects and cool downs (or on proc attacks) the retribution paladin spec will not get respect from the community & will be seen as the faceroll class of choice.

[dadou131988]

The Ret Paladin's seals of choice (SoC and SoV) do no rely on RNG, so I have no idea what you are talking about...

Judgments, CS, and Divine Storm are all a form of controlled damage, so again, I'm still figuring out the name of the game you are playing...

Edit: I also forgot about Exorcism, silly me...

[zcks]

Soc & sov damage is done passively and relies on your crit rating which is determined in the end by RNG. As for exorcism, judgments crusader strike and divine storm they account for less than half of a ret paladins dps at 80 in decent gear. That is a problem when half or less of your damage is done actively and the passive half relies on RNG

[Megabloks]

In a raid environment SoM usually recounts for 20-25% of total damage, with melee at 15-20%.

[Roflcêr]

Everytime i looked at recount Melee(white damage) was always on top then SoB then JoB

[dadou131988]

SoV and SoC damage are as passive as white damage...

Guess who also use white damage?
That's right, the 9 other classes...

And you mean to tell me that Ret Paladins are the only class that use the crit rating?

Besides, the damage of SoV and SoC is mostly determined by the Main Weapon damage...

And now provide a suitable source and screenshot proving that more than half of the damage is provided by seals...

Edit: Wait, what is your concern, PvE or PvP?

[Baabinator]

Ohplease...

Wındfury ıs twıce as RNG as any Seal...

Besıdes.... youre gettıng a new seal to use ın 3.2..

Stop your bıtchıng

[Horn]

We know; a large portion of our damage currently comes from a passive damage buff. Works fine for shamans. Instead of spreading somewhat false information, why don't you create a half-baked wartools talent tree like everyone else who has seen ret is both completely broken and/or OP as hell.

[Whoopzz]

We know; a large portion of our damage currently comes from a passive damage buff. Works fine for shamans. Instead of spreading somewhat false information, why don't you create a half-baked wartools talent tree like everyone else who has seen ret is both completely broken and/or OP as hell.

Broken as fuck, yes, but OP as hell? Have you been watching the patch notes? Nerf after nerf. Now it takes over 15 seconds until we start doing any damage. Our "pvp" seal sucks at best, we had any useful tools taken away from us so Blizzard could give us the "tools we need", and with the final patch on the PTR we have yet to be given jack shit.

Holy and Ret is dead in 3.2

[Rhonen]

As long as blizzard stays with this design and does not change to to one that has a larger variety of active attacks with varying effects and cool downs (or on proc attacks) the retribution paladin spec will not get respect from the community & will be seen as the faceroll class of choice.

You should settle into the fact that no matter how complicated they make it, Ret will always be considered the lolret/faceroll/nub class in most of the community's eyes.

[Adamson]

Ohplease...

Wındfury ıs twıce as RNG as any Seal...

Besıdes.... youre gettıng a new seal to use ın 3.2..

Stop your bıtchıng

Our seals aren't RNG. The OP is silly.


And please explain to me how a flat 20% haste is RNG?

[Xacez]

Our seals aren't RNG. The OP is silly.


And please explain to me how a flat 20% haste is RNG?

Enchant, not the totem, enchant

[Adamson]

Enchant, not the totem, enchant

he didn't specify,

And I agree, the enchant is RNG.

[Dedweight]

he didn't specify,

And I agree, the enchant is RNG.

True he didn't specify which I would have figured the fact they were comparing Windfury to a Seal would have been a bit obvious as to which they were talking about. I guess you have to be a bit more exact in what your saying on the interwebs.


As to the OP, my warrior has to rely on RNG for Overpower and Execute procs as Arms as well as the RNG that is Crits to get Deepwounds rolling. My Shaman has to rely Maelstrom procs to be at his best.

RNG is part of the game, always has been.

[Rhonen]

Funny, the enh shammy in my last guild had no problem with WF carrying him to 2-3 in many of our Uld 25 fights. Oh well...I guess there's RNG and then there's RNG.

:-X

[Glorf]

i never really realized how little smashing my buttons was doing.
50% of my damage in raids comes from white damage and seal of the martyr.
i still dont see how it relies on RNG though, unless the OP is using seal of command in which case /facepalm

[Callsign Grunge]

Funny, the enh shammy in my last guild had no problem with WF carrying him to 2-3 in many of our Uld 25 fights. Oh well...I guess there's RNG and then there's RNG.

:-X

Lock and Load. Now talk about RNG.

[zcks]

We know; a large portion of our damage currently comes from a passive damage buff. Works fine for shamans. why don't you create a half-baked wartools talent tree like everyone else who has seen ret is both completely broken and/or OP as hell.

Ok but mine is far more thought out and balanced then most I have seen. http://www.war-tools.com/t64334.html?b=9zyxg

This build trades in most of our single hit burst for spreading our dps out over multiple attacks (though we still have some burst with exorcism), in exchange for most of the burst loss we gain a ms effect to ap/sp with vindicated judgments, Reduced cooldown on repentance & a interrupt on a 15 second cd.
I also fixed the problem with holy having no hots or aoe healing effects, the hot is a decent one and the aoe heal is fairly week but there better than what we have in 3.2 (we still have reduced mana effectiveness from 3.2 to compensate for the gains).

[Sunstrikeisretlawl]

The problem with the design of retribution is that it relies heavily on seal damage, as much as 50% or more of the damage done by a retribution paladin is done via seals. Whats more this damage is delt passively & relies on RNG for it to work well. This means that the player has no real control over the damage he/she is dealing.
As long as blizzard stays with this design and does not change to to one that has a larger variety of active attacks with varying effects and cool downs (or on proc attacks) the retribution paladin spec will not get respect from the community & will be seen as the faceroll class of choice.

Seals are just a way to really increase your weapon damage, and they are not RNG. Besides, CS, DS, and Judgement are the ways we "control" our damage. What makes these abilities any different, or less controlling than spam casting incinerates, or frostfire bolts? The only class/spec that has real "control" of their damage would be a rogue and feral druid, who rely on abilities that coincide with the combo point/finisher system. I mean, sure a DK can make their damage lower by not casting diseases, that's controlling their damage. Are they going to do that? No.
And in defense of an " overly simplified by comparison" dps rotation, since everyone thinks the other classes have SOOOO many buttons to press. We have tons of defensive heals and spells to make up for the loss of button mashing that most of you are so longing for. And really? Why do you want to more offensive? Does most of the paladin community forget how amazing we are defensively? I seem to the only one who supports this, rofl.

[Nillo]

Why do you want to more offensive? Does most of the paladin community forget how amazing we are defensively? I seem to the only one who supports this, rofl.

With the current changes on the PTR we are going to be useless as support healers in PVE :Shorter cd on CS removes those empty cds that could be used to shield/heal and JoL doesn't scale any longer, so yes if our dmg fails we will be completely useless in PVE.