Theory on Seal of Vengeance mechanics

[Adamson]

Does anyone else find it amusing I have hammer of wrath bound to my Q key?

[Lorad]

I am reading posts, in here, from paladins who make ridiculous complaints about not being op anymore and actually having to start being smart in pvp. and then there are suggestions of how you could make paladin op in some other way then before. and all that before the patch even actually hits live servers.

please consider this game is around balance and there is just no good in paladins nuking everything in less time than the hammer of justice is stunning the target. wait for the patch, see how it might work now, consider new strategies and only if you are abosolutely sure there is no way you can compete anymore, only then you should complain again.

I dont disagree with you on any point Cain, I just think there has to be a better way to combat certain classes. I mean our burst damage we had before patch(PATCH DAY BTW) wasnt enough to end a resto druid who had any sort of resil and many times even without the resil and it was very annoying and frustrating and I dont think its an issue of "oh no, you cant kill a class. go QQ" because everyone has bad to say on DK's. Its more along the lines of anyone who PVPs as a resto druid goes in knowing they wont die.

[alph]

Despite it being as simple as a new Glyph.

Blizzard wants to make us use the same things, in the same manner for both PvE and PvP, and it is stupid.

Speaking of glyphs....http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42747 anyone??

[Varaben]

I believe that blizzard wants paladins to change seals based on the fight. It adds a little bit of skill to the tree I guess? So if you know its a fight with small adds that you wont get to stack vengeance on you use soc or even sor. Then when the boss shows up you swap to vengeance. Other classes do the same thing: their rotation changes slightly based on the mechanics of the fight.

[Lorad]

Speaking of glyphs....http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42747 anyone??

If paladins had a glyph like that I think the world would explode from all the QQ

[Lorad]

and to help further my crusader strike theory....perhaps a glyph that lets it apply the DOT

[Ronark]

You dont OOM a resto druid. Innervates come off cd before you can keep them @ 0 mana. The best you can do is use your repent/HoJ to apply enough preasure that they actually have to CAST heals rather than using hots. Once you force them to cast they should be pretty low already, and you should hopefully have a arcane torrent ready to interrupt and finish the fight.

Can't Repent tress unless they are in Caster form- even then all their spells are Instant Casts.

Avenger's Shield says "Hai! For 10 seconds yus?"

Really, The likely mechanic they'll give you would be some sort of snare as opposed to a daze. I'm thinking something like Shattering throw, only without breaking immunities or reducing armor, it snares the target for X-seconds. A ranged snare, although whether it'll be a cast time or not, i do not know. They could actually tack this onto Hammer of Wrath, say, if the target IS NOT below 20% hp, it'll still hammer them, but snare instead of dealing damage. It's a short CD ability, ranged, instant, and i feel that with the two-sided approach to it, it'd be pretty unique.

30 second CD vs. 7 second CD

[Ronark]

I know that, that's why i said "Short CD". No point giving a snare that's limited by a long cooldown. Why do you think they call it "Spamstring"?

Because it comes in a condensed form in a can

[Lorad]

I know that, that's why i said "Short CD". No point giving a snare that's limited by a long cooldown. Why do you think they call it "Spamstring"?

and is salty and delicious?

[Deathleech]

OMFG SOMEONE READS UP! props to Arel.

god i hate all these QQ posts... it will do THE SAME EFFING DAMAGE AS SoB and MORE when it stacks to 5. honestly... just don't talk unless you know what you are talking about yeah?? it does 33% weapon damage as holy damage... SoB did about the same... but NOW it's a freaking DOT effect that will be added + when it gets to 5 it makes you crit for double... what's the damn problem? oh wow it will take (15???) seconds... btw they will adjust the stacking if it doesn't work the way it should. THE BLUE POSTS SAY IT"S A DAMN UPGRADE FOR RET DAMAGE.

/sigh noobs. SLASH SIGH.... honestly you're crying about xt heart? wow...just wow...

It's not just XT's heart dumbass. We are crying about Razorscale, Xt, Kologarn, Auriaya, Mimiron, Freya, Thorim, and Yogg cause guess what, on every one of those fights are DPS is gonna go down. That's 9/14 Ulduar bosses our DPS is gonna DROP. Some significantly, some a little less. The new change only really helps on tank and spank fights which there are exactly zero of in patch 3.2. If the fight has a decent amount of target switching our AoE then guess what? We actually lose more DPS than we are doing on live due to how SoV now works. This is a HUGE problem when you consider Blizzard has already said ret DPS is is to low on live.

As for PVP I think SoCommand just needs buffs. They fixed it a little with the patch, but they nerfed the judgment damage WAY to much. SoC seals do 12% less than Blood/Martyr and the judgments crit for around 2kl which is just rediculous. If I were Blizz I would increase the judgment dmg back up to what it use to be, or maybe SLIGHTLY less.

If they wanted to they could also add another talent, or make it part of the SoC talent and basically just make Judgment of Light/Justice/Wis do a little something extra when you are using Command. Justice could slow targets by an additional 20% (druids could get outta the 20%, but not the base movement reduction), Wisdom would give you back 5% more mana the one time, and Light would heal for 10% or something. Of course all these numbers would need to be tested and fine tuned, those were just examples. This would actually make you have to think which judgment to use in PVP and also give it enough utility that Command would actually be chosen to use over Vengeance.

[Gilgemesh]

has anyone thought about a weapon swap macro to get your stacks up quickly?
a 1.8 weapon with good gear and raid buffs could be something like 1.1 attack speed and thats a full stack in 5.5 seconds, versus 15. and the macro can be done while closing on a boss or mob, making it so easy to do. I personally haven't tested it, but it might pay off in fights you have to run around in to swap as you approach the boss to get your stacks up quickly, to return to full dps.

This might be a failed venture due to cs/white/ds damage losses for the 5 or so seconds it would take to get a stack... but... the extra 10 seconds of full dps time might just outweigh it.

I haven't tested. it might be worth it

[Ronark]

has anyone thought about a weapon swap macro to get your stacks up quickly?
a 1.8 weapon with good gear and raid buffs could be something like 1.1 attack speed and thats a full stack in 5.5 seconds, versus 15. and the macro can be done while closing on a boss or mob, making it so easy to do. I personally haven't tested it, but it might pay off in fights you have to run around in to swap as you approach the boss to get your stacks up quickly, to return to full dps.

This might be a failed venture due to cs/white/ds damage losses for the 5 or so seconds it would take to get a stack... but... the extra 10 seconds of full dps time might just outweigh it.

I haven't tested. it might be worth it

Its already been tested to be a DPS loss, as you spend 2 extra GCDs from an already GCD-intense rotation, as well as specials that do pitiful damage.