At what point does Command become better than Righteousness?

[BDF]

My question has been answered, ty.

Seal of Righteousness simply scales better with gear than Seal of Command.

[Pretorian]

In the form SoCommand is now, it shouldn't be used in PvE; you're much better with SoR for trash, AoE and short fights.

In your particular case, why do you have Glyph of the Seal of Vengeance when you're expertise capped ? My advice is either to replace it with Glyph of Seal of Righteousness or with Glyph of Exorcism.

[Spamor]

Read somewhere that ones you have BiS of the new raid SoC is better.

SoCrap

[Nikoll]

i use command over SoR. I feel the seal crits outway the judgment difference.

Aslo, 23!=26 so he isnt capped. Also, Drop con and get exo glyph. I have zero mana issues judging wisdom.

[Lark]

Command is stated to become better than SoR at ~i250 assuming you're using SotP, otherwise it is always better.

i use command over SoR. I feel the seal crits outway the judgment difference.

Aslo, 23!=26 so he isnt capped. Also, Drop con and get exo glyph. I have zero mana issues judging wisdom.

A) no one cares if you favour one thing over another. He asked a math question and 5 > 4 or whatever you want.

B) Cons is a larger dps increase than exo from what most theorycrafting I've read recently says. That might be why he isn't using it. If you think about it, it makes sense, especially given how low on the priority exo is.

[Nikoll]

how many fights are constantly moving? How much DPS does that con really give you when it is sitting 20 yards away for another 2 seconds?

[Pretorian]

Aslo, 23!=26 so he isnt capped. Also, Drop con and get exo glyph. I have zero mana issues judging wisdom.

My dear Nikoll, the guy is a HUMAN, and humans get 3 expertise when using swords or maces. So for him, seeing he's using a sword, the hitcap is not 26, it's 23.
I will "let you go" this time, since you're a BE.

[Whitcher]

The expertise cap is still 26. The "bonus" expertise from racials is added when you equip a weapon that gives you the bonus. IE: I'm a dwarf. If I have an axe equipped and my expertise is 21/26, that's it. If I switch out that axe for a mace, my expertise goes from 21/26 to 26/26. At no point is the cap actually lowered.

[Pretorian]

The expertise cap is still 26. The "bonus" expertise from racials is added when you equip a weapon that gives you the bonus. IE: I'm a dwarf. If I have an axe equipped and my expertise is 23/26, that's it. If I switch out that axe for a mace, my expertise goes from 23/26 to 26/26. At no point is the cap actually lowered.

Taken from Elitist Jerks - Retribution: 3.2:
"Expertise
Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to remove dodges from the attack table - you cannot remove parries from the table, but you only get parried from the front, so don't attack bosses from the front! 8.2 rating gives 1 expertise; you need 214 expertise rating (26 expertise, 6.5%) to reach the cap. If you are a human using a sword/mace you need 23 expertise (189 rating), and if you are a dwarf using a mace you need 21 expertise (173 rating) to reach the cap due to racials."

Shall we start arguing now ?

[Ascal]

SoR scales better with gear SoC scales better with weapons.

SoC will never be better than SoV unless you have a really great weapon(think ulduar and above) and really crappy gear(like crafted saronit stuff or something like that)

[Firstaider]

Taken from Elitist Jerks - Retribution: 3.2:
"Expertise
Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to remove dodges from the attack table - you cannot remove parries from the table, but you only get parried from the front, so don't attack bosses from the front! 8.2 rating gives 1 expertise; you need 214 expertise rating (26 expertise, 6.5%) to reach the cap. If you are a human using a sword/mace you need 23 expertise (189 rating), and if you are a dwarf using a mace you need 21 expertise (173 rating) to reach the cap due to racials."

Shall we start arguing now ?

You don't get it, the racial bonus to Expertise while using certain weapons is already being displayed in your Character tab. The number of Expertise displayed there includes that racial bonus if it applies to the weapon you currently wield.

[chrishanson]

Taken from Elitist Jerks - Retribution: 3.2:
"Expertise
Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to remove dodges from the attack table - you cannot remove parries from the table, but you only get parried from the front, so don't attack bosses from the front! 8.2 rating gives 1 expertise; you need 214 expertise rating (26 expertise, 6.5%) to reach the cap. If you are a human using a sword/mace you need 23 expertise (189 rating), and if you are a dwarf using a mace you need 21 expertise (173 rating) to reach the cap due to racials."

Shall we start arguing now ?

the person above said it, you dont quite get it, yes the cap is still 26 to begin with. but with the racials you NEED 21 additional expertise or the 173 rating if you were a dwarf, on top of having the 5 from maces, to reach the cap but the cap does not move. By wielding a weapon that you have a racial bonus for increases your expertise by 5. so if he was using a mace, and his sheet still showed him at 21 expertise, than he would still be 5 off the cap.

[rafein]

You don't get it, the racial bonus to Expertise while using certain weapons is already being displayed in your Character tab. The number of Expertise displayed there includes that racial bonus if it applies to the weapon you currently wield.

Racial bonus is not displayed on the character tab. And, as I recall, talents are not either.

[Whitcher]

Racial bonus is not displayed on the character tab. And, as I recall, talents are not either.

They are when you have a weapon equipped that gives you the bonus. And yes, talents are too. They are only included in how much expertise you have, and do not lower the cap you need.

[Pretorian]

I got it now ... he, as a human, needs to have 23 expertise BEFORE equipping the sword.
Sorry, my bad... I don't know how I calculated ... :-X

[meag333]

i use command over SoR. I feel the seal crits outway the judgment difference.

Aslo, 23!=26 so he isnt capped. Also, Drop con and get exo glyph. I have zero mana issues judging wisdom.

Glyph of Consecrate not only saves mana, but allows better rotational control because of the longer CD. Its more than just that mana saver, its more CSs and more judgements throughout the fight instead of wasting more GCDs on consecrate. Exos CD is so long, the benefit from the glyph isn't that much of a DPS increase. Also some stuff i picked up from EJ on glyphs.

[Glyph of Judgement]
This is your primary glyph as retribution. 10% more damage on one of our primary attacks is mandatory.

[Glyph of Consecration]
This is a PvE glyph, it saves a ton of mana and some GCD clashes over the course of a fight (worth 108mp5). With our GCD as locked as it is this is also a mandatory pve glyph.

[Glyph of Seal of Vengeance]
We now have the option of glyphing for 10 expertise! This glyph grants exactly what it says, 10 expertise (82 rating, 2.5%) when using our primary dps seal. This is a decent option if you are under the expertise cap or if you want to use other stronger items in place of expertise items. It's worth noting that if you benefit from even half of the expertise (example, glyph puts you at 31 expertise) it is more dps than the exo glyph. The main benefit of this glyph is a lot of freedom in gear choices, as you can drop weaker expertise pieces.

[Ronark]

SoR scales better with gear SoC scales better with weapons.

SoC will never be better than SoV unless you have a really great weapon(think ulduar and above) and really crappy gear(like crafted saronit stuff or something like that)

SoC will out do SoR only with i258 gear (Top-end 25 Heroic ToChamp gear).

[Ascal]

SoC will out do SoR only with i258 gear (Top-end 25 Heroic ToChamp gear).

just re-checked on elitist jerks and you are right. apparently, ilevel 250 or above is enough to make SoC better.
sorry, was working with old(ish) information.

[BDF]

Thank you for the last two replies.

Btw about my glyphs, I'm about to switch to the T8.5 helm and in the process losing a ton of expertise (I'll be brought down to 16 actually). So I'm not going to switch out glyphs again for a day of heroic grinding to get the helm.

[greatrichie]

From Exemplar at EJ

Modeling this in my spreadsheet I don't find this occurring at any reasonable level of gear if you have Seals of the Pure. The only time SoC is superior to SoR is with a high DPS weapon and low attack power on gear. If they continue to scale similarly (logical), then SoR stays in the lead. If your AP (therefore Spellpower, too) increases more rapidly than your weapon it causes SoR to pull further ahead.

A fresh 80 in crafted gear who gets an Ulduar or Coliseum weapon could indeed find SoC superior to SoR, but it's a narrow lead. I show SoC 5 DPS better with crafted saronite gear and 25man (normal) [Justicebringer].

SoC only scales on weapon damage (which gets about a 25% coefficient from AP(AP/14 * weapon speed of 3.5 to 3.6)). 36% of 25% of AP is 9%. So 9% of AP + 36% raw weapon damage. JoC gets % weapon damage, small AP coefficient (8%) and small spellpower coefficient (13%).
SoR only scales from AP (2%) and spellpower (4.2%). JoR scales from AP (20%!!) and spellpower (32%). The 15% from SotP is nothing to sneeze at. These heavier Judge make up for the smaller Seal and the fact the Seal cannot crit.

TLDR: If you have SotP, SoC is only superior if you have a great weapon, but crap gear. Equal gear and weapon or good gear and crap weapon put SoR ahead.