Engineering in PvE

[Asgard]

Okay so my rogue is 78 right now, soon 80 (maybe tonight ), and I made her an engineer + scribe. Scribe because it's awfully easy to get to 450 and avoids grinding Sons of Hodir rep. Engineer, because I've never had it above 130ish, and there are alot of fun things (rez, bombs, parachute, etc).

Soooo, the thing is, made it today to 400ish and I got all the "enchants" :
- Head : 45 stamina + CM thing
- Cloak : 23 agility + chute
- Gloves : haste on-use OR rocket every 45sec
- Waist : Rocket-stun (6min CD geez) OR binoculars
- Feet : Sprint + 24 crit

So I've got a few questions (or maybe more of advice to ask ), in terms of PvE (she'll be a PvE + BG's mix, mainly PvE char) :
- For the head slot, the enchant is clearly bullcrap.
- For the cloak, obviously it's good.
- For the gloves (and that's where it gets interesting), should I use a traditional enchant (44 ap) or one of the two listed above ?
- For the waist, does the engineer-only rocket launcher replace the saronite extra gem thing ? (got no mats, no gold, can't check myself )

If anyone would have a thread with discussion and or math around those enchants, that'd be great !

[Aerikaya]

The socket on the belt is seperate from an enchant, same as the BS only glove and bracer slots stack with enchants.
For the glove enchant, haste is more geared towards healers/casters and personally I would go with the Pyro-rocket, but I am not a rogue expert yet(waitin to roll goblin) so if you feel haste is good for you, its your toon.

The warlock section has a good section on different enchants and effects on dps but the rogue section seems lacking. I'll dig a little deeper but make no promises.

[Asgard]

I keep on searching for some up-to-date math, elitist jerks gave me 2 things :
- waist enchant and extra socket do stack. Anyway the enchant is 700-1000ish every 6 minutes, so it's neglectible
- haste enchant on gloves is better than 44 AP.

The remaining question, still, is : which bomb to use ('cause it's necessary to bomb enemies in order to make engineerung viable imo) ?

[Figoment]

I never wasted my time using bombs in raids but really just use saronite you get like 40 bombs from 5 bars

[Asgard]

I think they're useful :
- They don't use a GCD
- They hit AE for 1300ish
- They can crit
- They have a 45sec CD

[ArashikageClan]

This was posted by Aldriana on Elitist Jerks in the rogue forum:

Engineering, on the other hand, gives a multitude of benefits which we're going to have to add up:

1) Hyperspeed Accelerators now give 20% uptime on 340 haste rating, or 68 average-case haste; this works out to a benefit around 91 EP for Mutilate and 101 for combat; compared to the baseline glove enchant which is 44 EP for both, the benefit is roughly 47 EP for Mutilate and 57 EP for combat.

2) Flexweave Underlay is 1 agi better than the regular cloak enchant. 2 EP for both.

3) Nitro boosts are now identical to Icewalker, with the added benefit of boost movement at need; in an ideal fight, where they can be used on every cooldown, these reduce transit time by 2.5 seconds once every 3 minutes; 1 second of DPS in in the neighborhood of 7000 damage for most of us, so we're looking at something like 17500 bonus damage every 180 seconds, which is a full 100 DPS benefit, right?

Well, no. Because in practice the number of fights on which you need to to move far enough to get the full 2.5 second benefit, and need to do so more often than you can with sprint, are few and far between. The only fight in Ulduar where I can see getting full benefit from them is Yogg phase 2; one can argue you receive partial benefit on Mim, XT Hard, and some modes of Iron Council, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule. And even in those cases, it's only during certain phases, so in reality you'll use them once a fight at most in the majority of cases. So a more realistic assessment is, perhaps, 2 seconds of movement saved across a 10 minute fight, which works out to more like 20 DPS, which is around 25 EP. And on most fights, it will be less than that. So we're looking at, average case, perhaps 10 EP, I would argue.

Finally, we have bombs. A bomb does 1325 base damage, increased 13% by raid buffs, reduced by 6% due to resists, and increased by around 15% due to spell crit. Thus, we estimate the average damage in reality is around 1600; with a 60 sec cooldown, this works out to around 27 DPS, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 EP if used on cooldown.

Thus, the total theoretical benefit of engineering is around 47 + 2 + 10 + 30 = 89 for Mutilate, and 99 for Combat... assuming you use everything on cooldown. If, however, you are consistently 5 seconds late on using Hyperspeed Accelerators, or don't feel like burning through a hundred bombs a night, or otherwise fail to use the profession to it's absolute fullest, it's value is somewhat lower. For instance, if you use bombs and accelerators every 65 seconds instead of every 60, the total benefit drops to 80/90; and every fight you skip using bombs entirely on drops engineering to the bottom of the heap.

So, in terms of optimal professions, what do we find? Well, if you're absolutely commited to using engineering, and use every single ability on cooldown on every fight - including going through very large numbers of bombs and putting up with a lot of extra cooldowns to keep track of - it's going to be the best profession, and thus the optimal pairing is JC/Eng.

Full profession comparision can be found here by Aldriana as well, http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t64665-i...3/#post1293637 post #56

Although it's about a month old so I'm sorry if it's not up to date, hope that helps

[Jide]

Rocket boots and the glove enchants are pretty much the bomb.
Can't count the times rocket boots have saved my ass on some fights as melee.
I enjoy engineering, because it's a fun profession that gives me more things to press and silly things to do- thats what games are for right? Fun.

If you like PvP also, you'll as happy as a pig in mud.

Been engineering since 05 on my warrior, Still love Engineering.
I miss the iron nade days and rocket helming drakes adds in UBRS. Good times.

[Beltaine]

Haste and Rocket launcher are better DPS than 44 AP.

Rocket Launcher eeks out over Haste in all the theorycrafting I've seen.

[Shelke]

Haste and Rocket launcher are better DPS than 44 AP.

Rocket Launcher eeks out over Haste in all the theorycrafting I've seen.

What theorycrafting is that? All the theorycrafting I've seen says the complete opposite. 340 haste is a LOT. The amounts of extra attacks (and thus poison procs and combat potency procs) you get in that 10 seconds is far better than any static damage amount every 45 seconds. Especially since neither have any passive bonuses like the Flexweave Underlay and Nitro Boost do.

Hyperspeed Acceleraters > Hand-Mounted Rocket Launcher

[Rilgon]

Hyperspeed Acceleraters > Hand-Mounted Rocket Launcher

Must be nice for Haste to be worth a damn. *grumble*

[bbr]

Must be nice for Haste to be worth a damn. *grumble*

Especially when it works multiplicative with half of our cooldowns :P

[Kysimir]

Must be nice for Haste to be worth a damn. *grumble*

QQ MORE RILGON, IMO!

<3

Edit: I have not confirmed if the Frag belt shares the same CD as the Saronite bombs. If it does then just use the EMP one cause Saronite bombs do more damage and there is no use throwing an inferior bomb, if it doesn't then use the Colbalt one cause then you get an extra bomb to throw every 6 min. Check on this...also I think it has a 0.5 sec cast time so be aware.

It does.

Kind of.

Basically there are 3 bomb types:

• Sapper charges (5min CD)
  Saronite Gernades (1 min CD)
  Frag belt (6 min CD)

1 Explosive may be used every minute. No more than one a minute. So if you use Frag Belt at 1s into the fight, then @ 61s, you may use a Saronite Bomb. Then at 6min 1s mark, you may use the Frag Belt again. The 0.5s cast also suspends your melee swings >.>



Anyone have an issue, as melee, getting the circle targeting effect to show up when clicking the bomb with your mouse? I frequently have to quadruple click to get the damn thing to show up >.>

[bbr]

No issue here, i just added the belt to bartender.

[Kysimir]

Not the belt; the frag gernades themselves.

I can't figure it out, I also use bartender. :/

[Rilgon]

QQ MORE RILGON, IMO!

<3

wtf when the hell did you get here

[Kysimir]

wtf when the hell did you get here

Approximately....

112 posts ago.