Raiding dificulty is messed up

[veemon_ro]

Since I was bored and don't have much to do I've decided to start up a new raiding guild.
Yesterday was our first raid and surprisingly we've managed to clear all toc 25 man besides the last boss wich we did not atempt
Today how ever we've went to ulduar 25 and shockingly we only cleared 4 bosses due to whipes on ignis and kolorgam as well as not beeing able to make a good pull on auryia.

Now yes we are a bad guild as we are 4 days old and only raided 2 days...how ever...WHY in gods name are we able to clear TOC but not ulduar.

Isn't TOC above ulduar?! Is it just my guild? Or are more people experiencing this problem?

[Figoment]

Yes

[Snorri]

Patch 3.2 is a free epic patch. The raid instance of the Argent Coliseum has EASIER bosses but drops BETTER loot. Even pugs with 25 man naxxramas gear are easily pugging it. I go ther with my main and alt for easy epics and emblems. We one or two shotted first three raid bosses on 25 man mode with people barely knowing what to do. I doubt the heroic dificulty will be much harder. The bosses will have more HP and hit harder, but there are no other elements that make the encounter harder. The boss does not gain any other abilities or anything.

[Deleted]

The bosses will have more HP and hit harder, but there are no other elements that make the encounter harder. The boss does not gain any other abilities or anything.

I sincerely hope you're wrong, otherwise I'm just gonna focus on pvp until 3.3

[Camie]

ToC is a joke and it really shows what WoW is becoming.
Waiting on HMs but I don't have too much hope.
Might be a good time for me to quit like half of our raiders who already did.
It's pretty sad, I loved WoW, but that's cleary the last straw. A mmo in which the only end game is grinding epics isn't my idea of fun.

[veemon_ro]

I have to say, while i realised this instance is a joke from day 1 when they announced it, I was hoping that the bosses won't necesarily be harder then yog saron but AT LEAST be on par with the keepers and defenetly harder then kologram and auryia...

Sigh..I really wonder if there are actual people enjoying these "free epics". Personally I don't feel like i diserve the items i got atm since i didn't put any effort in geting them

[Shiira]

The bosses will have more HP and hit harder, but there are no other elements that make the encounter harder. The boss does not gain any other abilities or anything.

It is already known that twin valkyrs and jaraxxus have additional abilities on hard mode.

[Razali]

Patch 3.2 is a free epic patch. The raid instance of the Argent Coliseum has EASIER bosses but drops BETTER loot. Even pugs with 25 man naxxramas gear are easily pugging it. I go ther with my main and alt for easy epics and emblems. We one or two shotted first three raid bosses on 25 man mode with people barely knowing what to do. I doubt the heroic dificulty will be much harder. The bosses will have more HP and hit harder, but there are no other elements that make the encounter harder. The boss does not gain any other abilities or anything.

Now I didn't play on the test realms, but it's my understanding that one of the main reasons they made heroic versions of both 10 and 25 man content was so that they could add more boss mechanics without impacting on the normal mode encounters. To actually make it so it wasn't simply a "kill X in Y minutes" or extra HP etc. Did they even test the heroics on the test realm?

I sincerely hope you are wrong because like you said, the encounters are a walk in the park, but I am looking forward to seeing the hard ("heroic") modes in action.

[veemon_ro]

They said that coliseum hard modes arent as hard as ulduar hard modes wich again..it doesn't make sense.

Why is t9 raiding easyer then t8 raiding...

[Deleted]

It's pretty sad, I loved WoW, but that's cleary the last straw. A mmo in which the only end game is grinding epics isn't my idea of fun.

How is this different from what we had for the last 5 years? Can't /flex with your epics because you are not the only person on the server with them? Go do Celestial Defender or even Starcaller!

Personally I don't feel like i diserve the items i got atm since i didn't put any effort in geting them

Yes, you did. You spent time raiding. If you care to look at vanilla raids mechanics were easier, bosses had few abilities, etc. What Blizz did is they removed the need for endless grinding for consumables and mats for resist fights. Also, raiders nowadays are simply smarter, comes with every game.

Please stop whinning about epics, pretty please. Makes me wonder what game you were thinking you're playing since 2004.

[Snorri]

It is already known that twin valkyrs and jaraxxus have additional abilities on hard mode.

My bad then. I was misinformed. I was told by a guild mate that the only difference was increased HP and damage.

[veemon_ro]

How is this different from what we had for the last 5 years? Can't /flex with your epics because you are not the only person on the server with them? Go do Celestial Defender or even Starcaller!

I don't think it has to do with flexing.
But you honestly can't compare a good fight like ilidan or even relinquary of souls with an instance where you one shot bosses and get epics.

Also I see you're sugesting to some one else to do starcaller or celestial defender. I assume you done them yourself?

The point is that in the past you would kill hard boss X to get to boss Y. In other words the bigest reward for killing m'uru wasn't the epics he would give, but the ability to actually see killjaden.

Im certain that if you were in a bt guild in tbc youd knew that.

Yes, you did. You spent time raiding. If you care to look at vanilla raids mechanics were easier, bosses had few abilities, etc.

You also had 40 people to worry about. Try doing ...I don't know...Freya with 40 people. It could become the hardest fight in wow. Thats why nax was so hard back then, not because people didnt knew how to play, but because when you have more people in a raid more things can go bad.
Same reason why 10 mans are easyer then 25 mans. Less people means more simplicity.

What Blizz did is they removed the need for endless grinding for consumables and mats for resist fights. Also, raiders nowadays are simply smarter, comes with every game.

This still does not explain why ulduar is harder then toc. As for raiders being smarter...I disagree. The wotlk pugs and the trials i get for my guild are far worse then what I was used to in tbc.
Making content more easyer and more facerolling encourages people not to study about their class and try to learn the game. The "I can afk during the boss" or "I can raid with my gear unenchanted/unsocketed" and i will still clear the instance is predominant within the average player.

Please stop whinning about epics, pretty please. Makes me wonder what game you were thinking you're playing since 2004.

Epics are meaningless now a days. They have completly lost their value to the point where wining an epic doesn't matter what so ever.
You might say they used to be for flexing, but you know what? It was a nice aspect of the game when FINALLY your price of cenarion droped and you could get it. It made you feel proud of your character.

Right now geting a piece of t9.5 doesn't spark anything inside me because
-I didn't put any effort to get it
-I don't need it to kill harder bosses (the ulduar gear is usless as TOC can be done with nax gear)
-It doesn't look good, in fact t9 is the worse set ever made
-It doesn't help me get in any guilds since people don't recruit by gear anymore

So again, whats the point of epics in this expansion? Nothing. So at least id rather have some GOOD fights in instances.
It started to look promising with ulduar but TOC is just awfull..hopefully the hardmodes might be something to look up to

[Pewpewarrows]

Vanity items such as mounts, pets, and titles are Blizzard's new model for "showing off" your raiding experience, as opposed to purple pixels.

Honestly, I much prefer it to the terrible resist gear grind that was vanilla epics. If you weren't in a top-notch guild, you couldn't do any content to gear yourself up. And without the gear, you couldn't join a top-notch guild. The gear curve got too sharp too fast. LK's trying to get it right by spreading around the wealth so to speak, but I think most would agree they went overboard in handing out the epics. I think TBC got it right in that regard.

[Hardalor]

I love how most people are just discovering this. The PvE portion of 3.2 was ONLY added because of the new arena season. Blizz can't add arena gear without PvE gear, due to balance issues. Everyone remember early BC? They don't want pre-raid gear being PvP gear again. (For a lot of people...)

But with that said... IC will be hitting around the same time of the next season. So enjoy.

[hughbadazz]

ToC patch was meant to be free loots basically and so is ony when it comes out i think they are just allowing people to get geared to try ICC i kinda believe ICC will be very challenging maybe on par with bt before patch and bliz wants people to have the epics for that so there is less focus on o i need so much grinding and time to go to ICC its just ok lets try and spend the next couple days on this boss or something

[Ogemaniac]

TOC is just stupid easy. We have one or two shotted everything so far. It's not "easier than Ulduar" but it IS easier than Yogg+4 and fairly similar to regular Mimiron.

The biggest issues I have with this patch are that with so much good loot (and, critically, BADGES) loaded into just a fraction of a night's worth of raiding, we can't get everyone that wants into the raid in. We have been having at least 30 solid people show up each Wednesday, leaving at least five out. And unlike before, we can't simply compensate the those left behind with a share of the dkp, because they will still miss out on badges, which are really the limiting factor for quite some time.

Combined with the necessity of face-rolling heroics every day for a third of my end-game progression, and I am really irritated with this patch.

[Ceara]

... we've managed to clear all toc 25 man besides the last boss wich we did not atempt
...how ever...WHY in gods name are we able to clear TOC but not ulduar.

You didn't clear TOC.

[Deleted]

They said that coliseum hard modes arent as hard as ulduar hard modes wich again..it doesn't make sense.

Why is t9 raiding easyer then t8 raiding...

Well imo ToC is here only to keep us busy for awhile till ICC is released. RP'ers see it more like a training before we all head to ICC and challange the Lich King. There is alot of RP shit going on in this patch.

[Deleted]

Also I see you're sugesting to some one else to do starcaller or celestial defender. I assume you done them yourself?

No, I didn't do it, but you don't see me QQ about free epics and how the game got so easy in every damn topic. I'm comfortable in raiding, we are progressing in Ulduar HM, and having fun in ToC. We one shot Twins yesterday, big deal. Not everything has to be OMGZ IMBA HARD, I'm comfortable in Icecrown being way more challenging.

[asfkjl]

Why are you still playing WoW? Quit the QQ and stop playing if you don't like it. No one forces you to play.

/thread.