Subtlety: Usefull in bg's?

[Kuninas]

So I want to try sublety PvP, mostly bg's. I have some questions about its viability:

1. How does it do against plate classes compared to muti/prep?

2. Is imp. gouge a needed skill in a sublety build?

3. Is shadowdance a "good" skill? I know what it does, and have red some posts about its viability, but in your own opinion.

4. What classes will be easier and what harder compared to muti/prep?

5. In a nutchell: What is shadowdance pvp like?

Ty for answers

Ps: I am not a native english speaker, so if I have some grammar errors I JUST DON'T CARE!

[mrjoshua]

I tried it out and it was good against some classes but overall, you lose the burst you would have with Mutilate. I wont stop you from trying it, but I would be willing to bet you go right back to Mut.

[Deleted]

Subt is alright for bg's. U can get an ambush - backstab combo and get alot of ppl dead, especially if u go in av, since 70% are lowbies . Shadow dance isnt that usefull tbh, u can get to cheap shot -> ambush i guess but dunno tbh.

[Neurus]

Do it, it's way more fun than Mutilate. Specially because it's unexpected. These days all rogues are mut. You're going to miss the 3rd poison, but that's all.

Try something like this:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...blongo&group=1

[powpow]

its fun if u want to see some high numbers, i would use pve gear since u only have your bursts, u dont have the sustained damage to kill someone after that so u will be vanishing or resetting the fight if it fails. after the long ago ambush nerfs its not as awesome as before but still pretty decent if u have a good pve set.

[Blightmare]

Subt is alright for bg's. U can get an ambush - backstab combo and get alot of ppl dead, especially if u go in av, since 70% are lowbies . Shadow dance isnt that usefull tbh, u can get to cheap shot -> ambush i guess but dunno tbh.

It doesn't sound like you've actually played Shdance. Even on an undergeared rogue you can definitely compete, especially vs casters. With Shadowstep and Prep your mobility is much better than the other specs, and the ability to have such huge burst with an ambush opener is a great tool. Obviously ambush may not always be the right opener, especially vs plate, but mut/prep doesn't even really have ambush as a viable opener.

[Elanale]

There is no spec (as in talent tree) that is useless in BGs if played effectively. I'd know, I've done about half of 'em so far, and each has its own highly effective niche. BGs allow for a lot more personal style than Arenas. I dominate as a Prot Warrior in BGs, but I'd not set foot in an arena as one unless they gave us a mortal strike.

As a previous poster said, Subtlety is best for blowing up badly geared or PvE geared toons. Your best tactic is to instagib healers who are standing back and away from fights because they have more mana than health and more crit rating than resilience.

[Indilgo]

As stated a few posts ago SD is basically useless, if your gear is decent for whatever bracket your playing in you will have no problems taking half if not more of their health away with an ambush, follow with a kidney shot and go crazy. My rogue is lvl 60, AV is actually fun again.

[D34ThWi5h]

Subt is alright for bg's. U can get an ambush - backstab combo and get alot of ppl dead, especially if u go in av, since 70% are lowbies . Shadow dance isnt that usefull tbh, u can get to cheap shot -> ambush i guess but dunno tbh.

Shadow Dance is an extremly Powerful useful ability but it isnt easy to play most people get about 40% of the use of it because they think u just spam cheap shot and ambush which to properly play it u build 5 points then use a finisher for a Relentless Strikes proc into another opener a proper shadow dance is like this CS > Ambush > KS > Ambush > Evis > CS u need to keep your energy up with those procs most people dont relize this the only real downside to this spec is positioning on Backstab your usually screwed if u dont get a kill in Shadow dance

[meliancill]

i personly play shs agen. yes i know its a weeker spec in arena but i find myself doing realy realy well in bgs. not having to focuse around being behind my target and having a realy slow mh weapon with a dagger offhand makes it alot of fun. this is the spec i use for shs


http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc...21050135031000

my damage is prity high while yes you dont get the mutilate burst you still get plenty of damage to kill any class / spec. i have had no problems with it so far in bgs and it is some what vialbe in arena with a disc priest.

[Lawurst]

Subtlety is fun in bgs, as long as you're getting lucky with your targets.

[darkgunslinger]

So I want to try sublety PvP, mostly bg's. I have some questions about its viability:

1. How does it do against plate classes compared to muti/prep?

2. Is imp. gouge a needed skill in a sublety build?

3. Is shadowdance a "good" skill? I know what it does, and have red some posts about its viability, but in your own opinion.

4. What classes will be easier and what harder compared to muti/prep?

5. In a nutchell: What is shadowdance pvp like?

Ty for answers

Ps: I am not a native english speaker, so if I have some grammar errors I JUST DON'T CARE!

1. This may be subjective but imo its about the players skill. However what mute has over this is poison damage imo, poison it is what gives rogues a chance against plate.

2. Entirely subjective again, I never have used it, but its up to you.

3. Shadowdance is amazing when used correctly. It is most often used for burst (ie several ambushes in a row) but it is an amazing CC ability as well. After a 5 point KS you can wait on casters then pop SD then garrote or cheap shot. Many possibilities for this ability, especially a CC train.

4. With SD you can destroy casters especially mages with SS(shadow step). In bg's with just deadly gear and 25 man naxx daggers I've gotten 9.5k ambushes with out zerker buff or anything over the top. Even with well geared peeps I still get 4k ish ambushes as well as 4kish backstabs. However, without Deadly Brew SD spec fall behind.

5. Imo SD specs are very fun, very different play style. It takes a while getting used to because the main source of damage are attacks made from behind ;D. But once you get the hang of it, it makes BG's a lot more fun imo.

[darkgunslinger]

17/0/54 is pretty much standard.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...&version=10192

a little variation:

you can change several things around in this standard build to fit the need/situation.
1. you can take 3 points out of initiative and place them in either HoT or cheat death.

[Blueriku]

Sub actually counters mut, I never lose to mut rogue's. As for bg's its really fun, You just really have to know what your doing though because if u don't then mut will be more of a prime choice since mut is a little more simple. As for Shadow Dance its useful and since its a low CD. you can use it all the time but, you should glyph it. Against plate use bleeds and finish with stun lock combos after there down 1/4 to half hp (usually you will have a hard time against any plate except ret pallies and warriors that are not prot) other than that restro druids and shammy can be tough match ups to, but anything cloth will hate you (as usual) and anything not plate will also equally hate you lol.

[Malphigi]

I played ShD from begining of WotLK, i am still having a LOT of fun because as Neurus wrote its just unexpected. With CD change for ShD it become even more fun because whole spec is build on ShD. In BG i am like "rogue hunter" because what you need to do agaist rogue is: ShD>CS>Ambush>Ambush>Rupture and vanish . Before 3.2.0 i had hard times agaist noncloth player because i was mostly on CD with ShD. Now you just get kill every 1 minute ;D. As BlueRiku wrote, yes prot. plates are problem but its not only ShD Sub rogue issue. I dont have problem with equal geared DKs, arm/fury warrs even ret paladins are "easy" if you will be quick enough . ShD rogue vs. Cloth is just like knife vs. butter :-*

[Kuninas]

Sweet! Think I am gona try it out javascript:void(0); Bg's are not as seriuos as arenas so if it is viable I AM IN!

Ty for all the replies!