Resilience affecting Defence cap

[herpecin]

the tanking gear from ToC10/25 is stacked with defence on it, thus allowing you to use this ring.

BTW get a real shoulder enchant FFS

[SolSphere]

I'm assuming that you are a paladin since you are posting in these fprums. If you are block capped, and you can keep HS up 100% of the time, which you should be able to anyway...

You will not get crit.

That is to say, never turn your back on the mob, and if at anytime an ability of the boss can make you non block capped you are then crittable.

Also it's 1 point your chances of getting crit are pretty close to your chances of winning the lotto. (exagerated greatly, but you get the point)

[Gajan]

I've gotta try this out. I've got like 750 resil in my ret PvP gear and probably more HP than in my PvE prot gear (yeah I don't tank much.)

You're going to get wrecked...

[Fuzzymuscles]

/twitch
Stop... calling it... a defense 'cap'.

There is no defense cap. You are better to call it a crit cap. There were several people in this thread who correctly called it a minimum.

This is not a troll. This thread may give people the impression that defense after 540 is worthless due to there being a cap. This is false. After 540 it's better to start stacking dodge, but never ever ever worry that you have too much defense.

Ever.

[Desdemona]

/twitch
Stop... calling it... a defense 'cap'.

There is no defense cap. You are better to call it a crit cap. There were several people in this thread who correctly called it a minimum.

This is not a troll. This thread may give people the impression that defense after 540 is worthless due to there being a cap. This is false. After 540 it's better to start stacking dodge, but never ever ever worry that you have too much defense.

Ever.

It is a cap -- a soft cap. Once you reach it, any additional Defense loses a significant amount of its effect. There is no hard cap for Defense, however, in which Defense stops giving you any benefits. It's called a cap and treated as a cap because it is a cap, and it is foolish to keep stacking it past 540 for that very reason. Every single point of Defense you stack beyond that point is worse than other options available, including Dodge and Parry (until you reach the cap where the diminishing returns are too great), Hit (to cap) and Expertise (to cap).

Learn the difference before whining and bitching at other people. And stop giving wretched advice when you don't know what you're talking about.

[gryffin]

the main reason why def is better than res is listed in the tool-tip,


def adds a chance to miss/parry/dodge/block
res adds nothing of value to a tank save crit immunity

yes you can use res to get over min, but if you can avoid it do so.

i have 555 def, and the only place i put an enchant for def on is were any other enchant just isn't worth it
plus with that high a def rating, i can take off my T8.5 helm and wear my http://www.wowhead.com/?item=16955 to tank heroics, doesn't rely help my stats at all, i mean who puts spirit on a paladin only item, but hey its a way to change up the monotony of consecrating my way through heroics.

[Zoidie]

You need a bit under 537 defense with the pvp shoulder enchant to be capped, don't know the exact rating but if you have 537 or more, you are crit immune

To the people on their high horses saying that they don't tank in pvp gear: I'm sure all the tanks choosing 30 stam over a little bit more avoidance (heavily affected by DR ofc) just plain suck, AMIRITE?.

Yeah because a bit over 300 health and 15 resi (which most tank's prolly won't make use of since most will be over the +Def cap) is just so worthwhile when a boss is hitting you for 25k a hit AMIRITE ?

Nobody said the PvP shoulder chant sucked or somebody that used resilience sucked. The only person who remotely came close was a guy who was giving his opinion and said that HE, AS A PALADIN TANK WOULDN'T LIKE IT. He didn't say you should never ever get it and either enchant is fine.

[Zoidie]

It is a cap -- a soft cap. Once you reach it, any additional Defense loses a significant amount of its effect. There is no hard cap for Defense, however, in which Defense stops giving you any benefits. It's called a cap and treated as a cap because it is a cap, and it is foolish to keep stacking it past 540 for that very reason. Every single point of Defense you stack beyond that point is worse than other options available, including Dodge and Parry (until you reach the cap where the diminishing returns are too great), Hit (to cap) and Expertise (to cap).

Learn the difference before whining and bitching at other people. And stop giving wretched advice when you don't know what you're talking about.

It's not foolish to stack past 540. It might be a bit worse for you than straight dodge/parry but it's not like 'omg he is a noob for stacking +def after 540'.

[SolSphere]

It is a cap -- a soft cap. Once you reach it, any additional Defense loses a significant amount of its effect. There is no hard cap for Defense, however, in which Defense stops giving you any benefits. It's called a cap and treated as a cap because it is a cap, and it is foolish to keep stacking it past 540 for that very reason. Every single point of Defense you stack beyond that point is worse than other options available, including Dodge and Parry (until you reach the cap where the diminishing returns are too great), Hit (to cap) and Expertise (to cap).

Learn the difference before whining and bitching at other people. And stop giving wretched advice when you don't know what you're talking about.

You should probly confirm your finding before trying to tell others they are wrong...

[Desdemona]

It's not foolish to stack past 540. It might be a bit worse for you than straight dodge/parry but it's not like 'omg he is a noob for stacking +def after 540'.

He is a "noob" if he's stacking it past 540. If he happens to have it past 540 due to upgrades in gear, that's fine. You can't really control that as much as you can with your enchantments, gems and talent selections. And any future items you gain should keep that in mind as well; you could very well be doing better by selecting DPS items over tanking items when that's the case.

[Desdemona]

You should probly confirm your finding before trying to tell others they are wrong...

If you have something to say, say it. The burden is on you for "correcting" me.

[SolSphere]

He is a "noob" if he's stacking it past 540. If he happens to have it past 540 due to upgrades in gear, that's fine. You can't really control that as much as you can with your enchantments, gems and talent selections. And any future items you gain should keep that in mind as well; you could very well be doing better by selecting DPS items over tanking items when that's the case.

He was trying to explain that Defense cap is not a -->cap<-- defense doen not stop providing you with benefits past 540, therefor it is not a cap. He was correcting wording. He was not saying to grab all the defense gems you can find and shove them in your gear.

You however decided to twist his post into somethign it was not, and also do it rudely I might add.

he even has

After 540 it's better to start stacking dodge, but never ever ever worry that you have too much defense.

in his post confirmin that he is not telling people to stack defense.

You however have this line

and it is foolish to keep stacking it past 540 for that very reason

in your post which is inaccurate infomation when comparing it to his post.

[Zoidie]

No, he isn't a 'noob' for stacking it. He may just be mis-informed but you can't call somebody a 'noob' because blizzard do not give any advice regarding proper tanking stat's at all and we have to get this sort of information from exterior sources. For example, before i read any guide's and theorycraft, i stacked +def cause it seemed to good at what ti did. Taking one of each stat was nice but +def giving a bit of each seemed more worthwhile to me. So i must be a noob because with blizzard not giving me correct information and me not reading the website's i clearly was too idiotic to understand the simple task of gemming for avoidance.

[erwin121]

You need a bit under 537 defense with the pvp shoulder enchant to be capped, don't know the exact rating but if you have 537 or more, you are crit immune

To the people on their high horses saying that they don't tank in pvp gear: I'm sure all the tanks choosing 30 stam over a little bit more avoidance (heavily affected by DR ofc) just plain suck, AMIRITE?.

Itemstatwise you gain a free 5dodge if you use the sucky sons of hodir enchant. And another 5dodge and 5 defense if you have the good one. So get of your high horse and get a pve enchant because they are way better.

[erwin121]

It is a cap -- a soft cap. Once you reach it, any additional Defense loses a significant amount of its effect. There is no hard cap for Defense, however, in which Defense stops giving you any benefits. It's called a cap and treated as a cap because it is a cap, and it is foolish to keep stacking it past 540 for that very reason. Every single point of Defense you stack beyond that point is worse than other options available, including Dodge and Parry (until you reach the cap where the diminishing returns are too great), Hit (to cap) and Expertise (to cap).

Learn the difference before whining and bitching at other people. And stop giving wretched advice when you don't know what you're talking about.

parry is still a lot worse compared to defense

[Ronark]

parry is still a lot worse compared to defense

Not once you reach diminishing returns on Defense, no- In any case you should be aiming for Dodge and not Parry.

[YourHeroVir]

You're going to get wrecked...

Cool, it sounds like it would be just like when I have my tanking gear on!

[Ronark]

Since 3.2, this isn't completely true. Dodge per point was lowered, and parry per point was raised to make dodge and parry about equal. Agility based dodge was also reduced. Also, take note of the "Damage on hit" change that was made to SoV.

Now, each time you parry, you get the next swing in half the time (Parry Hastening). Technically, if you stack enough Parry, you'll be parry-hastening quite a lot, and thus doing more SoV-based damage. This also means you're "avoiding" a lot of melee damage.

While defense gives you both dodge and parry (and block and miss), it doesn't compare to pure avoidance.

Wasn't Parry only lowered to a per point basis on Dodge when you are not Defense capped?

And no, any additional Defense cannot compare to the extra "pure" avoidance stats.

[davep]

with the 30stam/15resil shoulder the minimum defense rating you can have is 536 which is 5.44% crit reduction, with the resil enchant it will make it 5.6% crit reduction which makes you crit immune.

[Desdemona]

He was trying to explain that Defense cap is not a -->cap<-- defense doen not stop providing you with benefits past 540, therefor it is not a cap. He was correcting wording. He was not saying to grab all the defense gems you can find and shove them in your gear.

Get this through your dense skull: IT IS A CAP -- A SOFT CAP. It's obviously too much for you to comprehend, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a fucking cap.

in his post confirmin that he is not telling people to stack defense.

He's also saying not to "worry" about having more than 540 Defense, implying that you're just fine and dandy to keep going and you're not gimping yourself in any way whatsoever by doing so. But you are. Period. End of discussion.

in your post which is inaccurate infomation when comparing it to his post.

Except I didn't give a single piece of erroneous information, you ignorant twat.