Blizzard's ladder competition design philosophy caters to a small % of

[Beaavis]

the same top players which creates an elitist atmosphere that fosters exclusion of most players from participating. It was this way during the HWL climb with team stacking and deals made as who would get HWL from which team. Raiding has gone very far in an elitists direction almost to the point entry level players are timid in getting involved or even applying to a guild. Arena is the most elitist of elitist activities in WoW, and soon it will be BG's.

So Rated BG's are on their way into WoW finally after almost 2 years of teasing in an Arena-centric WoW. Casuals and the players who enjoy PvP'ing here and there have been waiting for BG's to finally be given some emphasis. Little did they know that Blizzard would create the same type of elitist playground that Arena became in a BG format. The problem? Its JUST like Arena's. It caters 100% to top end player premades, which excludes 80% of the casual PvP player base that kept BG's popular when nobody else cared. Its basically going to be the Arena players shifting over to Rated BG's and forming top teams per server similar to the HWL climb type of grouping elitism, where most people are going to have a very frustrating time being stomped on being part of a bad team or finding a team at all.

Before you start flaming me to get skill so a team will pick me up, i'm not writing this in fear of me more than Blizzards design philosophy being flawed and constantly catering to the same top 5% at the expense of 95% of those that enjoy said activity. It bothers me that the same people who shunned BG's altogether, and Arena catered 100% to, are the same exact target audience Rated BG's will also cater to, and these were often the players that AFK'd honor, ruining it for the rest of us. Since Blizzard loves to play a double standard between BG's and Arena, and how all BG'ers are penalized by the worst of us who exploits afk'ing honor therefore BG's could never have good rewards, as opposed to those that abuse the Arena system and are immediately banned, and exploits hot fixed. I find it rather disappointing of whom Rated BG's are going to benefit the most.

I speak from the standpoint of someone who played BG's on my servers top teams during the HWL climb, and let me say that premade play is highly overrated, and definitely not very casual. I played on both of the top teams on my server at the height of in-server and cross-server BG play.

How can PUG'ing be more enjoyable than Premades? Simply because you are not constantly taking directions, play a specific role asked upon you, everything isn't completely dictated in some manner. The top team on my server was so min-max that there would be pre called targets and game plans before actually trying to get the flag back(WSG obviously). There was just so much direction playing with this team i felt almost like a robot. Needless to say thats not how i enjoyed playing this game, even if it was more efficient. I eventually stopped playing with them for my servers 2nd team that gave me a lot more freedom. Even then i only logged on casually compared to the players that were always on, and only reason i'd always get a spot was because i was one of the main flag runners. All in all i prefered PUG's, and there came a point where i just was burning out of this game from the honor farming and the nerd rage pressure of not losing where a lot of Premade players would get extremely angry over. If we even lost 1 game people would just nerdrage logout. Its just not enjoyable playing in this type of environment, when i'm just trying to have fun in a game. I eventually started telling them "i'm not going to be on long" and would PUG when they'd try and invite me. Sometimes i think to myself 'maybe its just me?' Am i the only one that logs into WoW just wanting to get some fun PvP? Not some ladder based competition where some players treat it like life and death? Where they expect you to be on for hours and hours after an invite and get pissed if you leave early. Why should i be excluded from rewards if i prefer playing WoW for a more enjoyable experience rather than so competitive competition based all of the time?

Does anybody else see a flaw with Raiding and Arena as things are today? Do you see the elitist atmosphere its created compared to most games? Do you think its flawed that everything done along these lines caters to the same top 5% of players, whether its PvE or PvP? There are probably TONS of casual BG'ers excited about Rated BG's thinking they're going to get more opportunities to have more equal gearing. Little do they know that things won't be any different than they are now, except BG's will become a much more elitist's paradise. Raid guilds today are extremely elitist and require almost spreadsheets of DPS numbers from its applicants that its just gotten silly. Arena is as min-max as things come, so how do you feel about BG's becoming the same elitists min-max activity?

For better or worse BG's are going to change a LOT once Rated BG's are instituted. I don't think most players realize that the system Blizzard plans on implementing is going to parallel Arena, and how its not really aimed at most players who play this game more than the top 5% constantly. I'll never agree RTS type of competition belongs in a MMORPG, much less rewards that give a leg up rewarded to the most skilled, which creates larger disparities between players. Why is it so hard for this company to create an activity based around fun, and rewarding for good things a player does within the game, rather than forcing Premade teams and ratings on everything that excludes casuals and fosters elitism? While promoting play that isn't necessarily 'fun' but ladder competitive.

There is just something REALLY wrong with Blizzards MMORPG design philosophy and its too bad so many other MMORPG's barely even work right, or else they'd have some competition to their 'competitive to a fault' game design at the expense of 'fun' :P

[Azrune]

TL;DR

Wall of text crits you...

Etc, etc.

[conscript]

AFAIK there are going to be rated bgs and non-rated versions of bgs. A Premade rating driven team won't be matching up against 10 scrubs with zero pvp gear. If it isn't like this it could suck, but for the most part stop freaking crying about stuff when you don't even have the slightest idea of how it will be implemented yet.

Also TL;DR. Its usually a good sign when your first paragraph starts with a typo.

[Hypno]

I understand your concern for BGs turning into Arena but I say wait to see how it pans out. From what I've read so far, yes elitists will get the better gear first but it seems more of a like a PvP progression, meaning that as long as you are dedicated and run your bgs and form your teams, you will eventually be able to get the gear.

[Beaavis]

AFAIK there are going to be rated bgs and non-rated versions of bgs. A Premade rating driven team won't be matching up against 10 scrubs with zero pvp gear. If it isn't like this it could suck, but for the most part stop freaking crying about stuff when you don't even have the slightest idea of how it will be implemented yet.

Also TL;DR. Its usually a good sign when your first paragraph starts with a typo.

Try doing some research nub if you don't think anyone knows anything about Rated BG's yet.

And nobody cares about a grammatical error some anal internet nerd wants to point out. I sure as hell don't. It just makes you more annoying than you already come across :

[Beaavis]

I understand your concern for BGs turning into Arena but I say wait to see how it pans out. From what I've read so far, yes elitists will get the better gear first but it seems more of a like a PvP progression, meaning that as long as you are dedicated and run your bgs and form your teams, you will eventually be able to get the gear.

well the early rumor was that it was going to be independent ratings. Now from what i read it sounds a lot more like Arena style team ratings. I don't think people understand all of the downsides in this game of having to get a team together for everything, especially for casuals that don't plan on being on for more than a few games at a time. Any team you join is going to expect you to be on a few hours...

There is just so much more to this that people just don't know or have forgotten(if they played on premades before).

[frenchfries]

My god. In games where players compete against each other and good players are separated from bad players elitism is created. I demand the ban of all DPS/healing/kill/objective meters and charts. Also, everyone receives the same rewards and an NPC to /hug them after they exit the battleground.

Edit: Please provide a list of games without elitism for comparison.

[david58]

Try doing some research nub if you don't think anyone knows anything about Rated BG's yet.

And nobody cares about a grammatical error some anal internet nerd wants to point out. I sure as hell don't. It just makes you more annoying than you already come across :

You just lost all credibility as a legitimate OP in a thread, by replying to someone's disagreement of your post with "nub" and "nerd", nice job, man.

[Spurmwhale]

You just lost all credibility as a legitimate OP in a thread, by replying to someone's disagreement of your post with "nub" and "nerd", nice job, man.

:

Why do so many internet idiots post on MMO Champion? Like that stuff doesn't happen, ever.

[Deleted]

Short and tidy answer:

No,Blizzard will not let you have access to top-grade PvP gear from anything besides tight-organized teamwork gameplay.Just like any sort of PvE above the starter-raids require either massive amounts of time in failpugs or a tight,organized community(guild).

No,solo-play will not reward you with raid-equivalent rewards.Sorry.

[conscript]

Try doing some research nub if you don't think anyone knows anything about Rated BG's yet.

And nobody cares about a grammatical error some anal internet nerd wants to point out. I sure as hell don't. It just makes you more annoying than you already come across :

Cat is what 6+ months from release, 5+ months from beta, so when I say no one knows anything about how rated bgs will get implemented, you can take it as fact. Its impossible to research something that doesn't exist outside of pure speculation and unfounded rumors. No one on this forum has had hands on experience with the new bg system or meant with a designer to learn the ins and outs of Blizzard's design philosophy with it. You know nothing about it and yet you feel it necessary to whine about it adding yet another rating grind to the game. There will be a place to PvP for non-ratings driven players like you and I, and there will be a place for those who seek to excel in a rated PvP environment that isn't arena. We'll still get our honor points for our low level PvP gear and they will get their arena points for their high level competitive PvP gear.

I'm still not sure what your argument really is actually. Of course premades are going to be more fun for PvP just like they are now. Premade groups will still exist in non-rated battlegrounds consisting of people who aren't looking for the rating environment. Pugs will still exist but will have less to worry about in facing premade gladiator teams. I really don't understand how you could be so angry about a system that has zero effect on your gameplay and won't even exist for half a year.

Also as for the typo, while your entire post was very well spoken, its bad enough that it qualifies as a tl;dr when trying to get readers and starting it with a typo further turns people off instantly.

[Beaavis]

Blue has talked about Rated BG's(read the blue tracker, as well as Blizzcon notes) already therefore some definitive information has been released.

I'm talking about these Developers catering to the top 5% in every facet of their game. What pisses me off about this is that it caters to the same crowd that spited BG's and were ruining them for the rest of the player base by leeching honor where the rest of us were penalized. If you think i'm generalizing hang out with high rated Arena players on your server or visit high rated Arena player forums and you'll see the attitude or even bragging about afk'ing. The double standard these Developers played between Arena and BG's is already lame as shit. But the fact that they are again appeasing that same crowd with the new team rated system, while the average player thinks Rated BG's is going to be something for them is just fucked up, because its not. You'll see. Yeah thats right complaining after the fact usually does wonders :

And like i said the core of the problem is Blizzards game design philosophy trying to push RTS/FPS game designs into MMORPG's. It promotes elitism and larger disparities in a supposed competitive environment. Theres a HUGE difference between these MMORPG games and the superficial competition of RTS/FPS's. This game is headed further and further into a niched hardcore, forced playing for hours upon hours style of game cutting out a lot of everyone else with new features. Sorry doing stuff for nothing(unrated BG's) when the whole expectation was that Blizzard was going to make a activity(BG's) more of a casuals way of 'arena'ing' for gear is screwed up. They know what player expectation was going into this, what player expectation still is, and i have a strong feeling a lot of you will be disappointed.

Rated BG's isn't for most of you here, let alone most players in this game, despite what a lot of people think they're going to be. Most of you probably already despised Arena and its why you still played BG's hoping they would put in a system that is more forgiving and inclusive. Mark my words and this post, Rated BG's are NOT what you think they're going to be under Kalgan's vision of them. They are going to parallel Arena and cater to the same exact players while they'll tell you that non rated BG's are still viable even tho we've been playing them for the last 3 years with an expectation Rated BG's would bring something different.

Don't say i told you so when it comes true. I've read enough about Rated BG's to be sure they aren't going to change much for most players in this game, other than being another elitists playground. I'm only spiteful because the way i play WoW these days isn't going to allow me to play with a team without issues. I know i'm not going to have an issue finding a team as much as some others, but the thing that bothers me most about that(because i honestly shouldn't care) is the same BG leechers are being catered to completely with the new system. Its like they have blinders on that audience in every aspect of their game development :P

[Beaavis]

Short and tidy answer:

No,Blizzard will not let you have access to top-grade PvP gear from anything besides tight-organized teamwork gameplay.Just like any sort of PvE above the starter-raids require either massive amounts of time in failpugs or a tight,organized community(guild).

No,solo-play will not reward you with raid-equivalent rewards.Sorry.

Organizing a team for everything has so much fail involved for 80% of any servers population its a joke some of you condone this. Especially when PUG BG's have been WAY more popular in this game, including 2v2 Arena, than any of the more 'organized' bullshit requiring an hour of getting 10+ players together or setting RL WoW appointment times to play, and then multiples hour expectations of play once the group is formed.

Did you play on a team during the HWL climb days? I hope youre in your servers top 20% of PvP's or you're going to be resigned to shitty groups that break up, while everyone else team stacks. I just don't think most of you understand how this works, and the type of elitist tendencies that go on when Blizzard applies their RTS/FPS game designs.

I'd be willing to bet a lot that the system is going to disappoint a lot of people who were expecting something more inclusive, and less like Arena...

[rathok]

@OP... here's the thing, you can't be a casual and have the perks of being a "hardcore" with things like top end gear/other rewards. No matter what, blizz is not just going to hand out all the PVP gear like they did in S3/4. If you want good gear then you have to be good.

People have QQ'd their eyes out because arena is too competitive and the classes aren't balanced and OMFG QQ I CANT WIN. If you suck in arenas, your going to suck in rated BGs and its not because of class or comp. Its because you don't play as well as someone else.

People don't play with scrubs because they want to win and they want you to contribute as much to the team as they do. They don't want to carry you. That's where this "elitest" crowd comes from. Apparently not wanting to carry bads makes you elitest. I'm sorry if I want the people on my team to be as good as me.

If you actually do enjoy just playing the game in pugs ect then why don't you just stfu and play the game?

[Thaendra]

Actually, there are a number of blue posts about this issue. Unrated BGs aren't going anywhere. I'll briefly quote one of the blue posts:

"Unrated BGs aren't going away. In fact, you'll have access to slightly more than you did in the past even just through unrated bgs. So, it should continue to be a great way to spend 30-40 minutes when you don't have time to organize with others. " -Kalgan,
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1&pageNo=3#56

And I find it a bit unfair to peg every arena player who queues for BGs as "that guy who sits in the back AFKing and bragging about it". That's just as ignorant a statement as saying "Every casual pug BG player is bad and detrimental to the team". It's not clear cut in any situation. I like the idea of Rated BGs. Will players ALWAYS use them? No, sometimes they too will want to solo queue and enter the unrated BG's and I'm sure this will be fairly common.
Why should players of a certain level (supposedly "elitist") not be allowed to play with other players of the same gear/experience level if they so choose? It's like saying it's elitist to want to progress to be with a group of like-minded and experienced people. I personally would be glad that full furious geared groups/premades are LESS likely to be in my alt's pug BG while I'm just trying to do a bit of PvP, get some honor, and getting used to my class. Those people who are more geared towards competitive team play won't be smashing pugs 100% of the time anymore, I reckon. All in all, it probably pays to just wait and see what else is said about the system by the developers.

[DarkRage]

I've been playing WoW since it first came out. Even bought the collectors edition that comes with the special diablo,zergling, and panda pets. So I do understand and have been there for the High Warlord climb. I have to say for those who tried back then to make the mark of HW spent a huge amount of time wasting away infront of a computer screen about 16 hours per day 7 days a week. I had to leave an ex-grilfriend of mine who made this climb and wasted away. I am a causual player and she became very hardcore when the ranking system came out that she got consumed and was destroyed health wise by a video game. Her character was Lifeweaver and played on Detheroc, is now on Dunemaul now. You see by making a system that requires you to devote such a mass amount of time to get the "best" gear is very unhealthy. Be it raiding or pvp. I like to come home after work spend time with my kids then when everyone goes to sleep..have a little free time to unwind and WoW provides that. However that being said..a system that requires people to work instead of "play" and have fun is retarted. I agree that catering to a certain group of players is a very poor choice of business. We all pay the monthly fee and should get a shot at good gear, not hand me downs. Regardless you should still have to put in some time and effort to get the gear you want but making the best gear only availiable to those who live in a dark basement wasting away putting in all that time to get that gear that will only be replaced within a few months or so...is well..stupid. In regards to a new pvp system that would require you to be a serious hardcore player just to get the good gear well that is just lame. True, nothing would compare to the grind to High Warlord and I doubt anything ever will but it doesn't make sense that every one pays the same fee but yet...only a very few % ever get the best stuff. They should keep the game challenging and yes..in some aspects it is to easy. For pvp however they should make it more rewarding and not cater to anyone who plays more than the other or has more skill. This game is far from perfect and even the afk system is very flawed. Those of you who think it isn't are smoking crack. It is as easy to afk now as it was back in the day when battlegrounds first came out. Only people stupid enough to sit in the cave in an AV ever get reported..the ones smart enough to go else where and afk never do get reported. So the afk system "does" need work. How they would do this, well I am no expert on it but I am sure there are plenty of ways they could handle it cause that does ruin it for alot of people trying to win a bg. Either way..to make a few final notes. The pvp system would be fine as it is now, need a better afk system...it works "ok" but it is not good. The only flaw with it is the hand me downs..which I don't care if it's called scrub gear..I rather be called a scrub with a life and a good job then a nerd who lives in my mothers basement getting fat and smelling like a**. This being the conclusion to this..it doesn't have to be the "best" gear awarded...however it should be worth more then lame low level pvp epics. We all pay our subscription..there for we should be able to have a chance to obtain something good, even if your a retard that has a finger up your nose while pounding random buttons. Raiding..well it's cool where it is..I believe that is where the hardcore players should be and "stay"

[Beaavis]

@OP... here's the thing, you can't be a casual and have the perks of being a "hardcore" with things like top end gear/other rewards. No matter what, blizz is not just going to hand out all the PVP gear like they did in S3/4. If you want good gear then you have to be good.

People have QQ'd their eyes out because arena is too competitive and the classes aren't balanced and OMFG QQ I CANT WIN. If you suck in arenas, your going to suck in rated BGs and its not because of class or comp. Its because you don't play as well as someone else.

People don't play with scrubs because they want to win and they want you to contribute as much to the team as they do. They don't want to carry you. That's where this "elitest" crowd comes from. Apparently not wanting to carry bads makes you elitest. I'm sorry if I want the people on my team to be as good as me.

If you actually do enjoy just playing the game in pugs ect then why don't you just stfu and play the game?

Its not about having the same road to rewards, its about having A road for 80% of the player base. BG players are conditioned at this point to being treated as WoW PvP's red headed step children since they've always had a max ceiling of 3rd rate rewards while Blizzard pretended it was the AFK leechers that were the reason they had to do that. So they hype up Rated BG's for 2 expansions with these same players very excited about it, thinking BG's will finally give them A road to those rewards, when in reality all its going to do is shift the activity from Arena to BG's hierarchy.

I don't think anyone ever expected the same ease of acquiring top rewards as the best players. Whether it takes 10x's as long or 100'xs as long, players shouldn't be forced into elitist premade teams just to be on that road. There should be alternative methods that may take longer, but possible. As things are Blizzard pigeon-holes everyone into 1 road only.

Then you have this constant push into forcing players into the hassles of premade teams constantly, and it being less about accessibility but more forced RL play times to coordinate xx number of people and organizational effort that for most people isn't even worth the time. Its similar to what they did with 2v2 Arena when it was THE most popular bracket by far because it was so accessible and required the least hassle in getting people together just to even participate. I don't understand why everyone pretends the hassle of getting xx number of people together should be some requirement towards gear because its such a pain in the ass, therefore some pre-requisite : But thats how players tend to think i guess. There is just something said for ease of entry into an activity when a player logs into this game, and Blizzard seems to have no clue about it. If you can't see the way Raiding and PvP have changed, and are changing in this game then you're blind. Everything has become far more elitist in every respect due to the ladder competition based nature design of everything in the game. BG's will soon become the same elitist playground it was during the HWL climb, and the same thing Arena and Raiding have become.

Premades are very overrated in the context of a players enjoyment of this game as i cited. Sure people who just care about winning or a competition constantly will prefer them, but players who care about having fun and making their own decisions instead of taking orders and being dictated to, probably won't find them nearly as enjoyable. Theres a big difference between enjoying yourself while gaming as opposed to being efficient and playing it like its the military. No i don't enjoy being told to guard BS, and not be able to ninja Stables if i see it open, much less any other decision i want to make but the overly serious nature of competition and players who take this game too seriously nerd raging because you strayed from the 'game plan'. Did you play BG's during the Premade days? Did you really enjoy having to play limited roles, and adhering so much to someone dictating strategy? I like thinking for myself thank you very much. Not be led like some robot by some 12 yr old raid leader :P

The gear gaps should barely exist in what they front as a competitive environment. I don't get why so many supposedly 'skilled' players are so protective of them in the first place. Even then there should be alternative methods of getting near equal gear(not the status symbols or fluff rewards) even if it takes 10 - 100x's longer. In the end the skilled players will still be better so why is it such a necessity that the already more skilled have much better gearing also? Its just so fucked up how the most excited players about Rated BG's are the ones who are getting the most screwed, and the ones that abused them are who they are catering them to. All of the 28 page WoW forum threads asking for them were madeup mostly of lesser rated Arena players, while the ones pretending BG's were lame and how they AFK through them were the hardcore Arena players. Don't even pretend this isn't more or less true.

I play this game for fun. Obviously some play to socialize or compete. Just don't pretend youre more skilled than me or bring more to winning a BG than i do, let alone make better decisions in one than i do when you're happy with being a robot cog in a machine. And don't tell me you can do whatever you want on premade teams because its just not as efficient as someone dictating. Have fun being someone elses peon. I realized the truth about Premade BG's a long time ago, and its a joke how some of you pretend to portray them.

[rathok]

man... that is a wall o' txt if i've ever seen one, ill respond to that in a bit. First, to throw some facts out there (lol, facts, i know right?) here is what blizz said about rated BGs:

Rated Battlegrounds

* Rated Battlegrounds will be an alternative way to get arena points.
* Each week, one of the BG will be the Rated Battleground of the week. Winning in this battleground will improve your rating and give you points. Losing will not lower your rating.
* New PvP titles will be added, as your rating progress you will unlock higher titles. If you earned a PvP title you will keep it.
* When a Battleground is rated for the week, its normal non-rated version will still be available.
* The amount of Arena Points will be limited to prevent grinding.
* You will also earn guild level by playing these rated battlegrounds with your guildmates.

So, not much of a change. Basically its just another way to get arena points but without having to arena. Anything involving PVP is going to follow 1 of these themes for rewards: A) make it really grindy - current BG rewards, B) just hand the shit out - WG rewards, or C) only reward those who succeed - the arenas.

Blizz doesn't want to make things grindy... they dont like just handing shit out... so, that leaves, reward only those who succeed. There are some hand outs and there is a bit of grinding but for the most part, they are only going to reward those who succeed. The design of competitive PVP is for you to lose 50% of your fights. If you dont want to "compete" then you need to switch it over to PVE, thats all there is to it.

Kalgan pretty much hit the nail right on the head in saying:

[size=10pt]"Arenas are very effectively serving exactly the purpose they were created for. The arena system might be failing to provide you personally with good gear, but the system itself continues to be successful."[/size]

[Beaavis]

Actually, there are a number of blue posts about this issue. Unrated BGs aren't going anywhere. I'll briefly quote one of the blue posts:

"Unrated BGs aren't going away. In fact, you'll have access to slightly more than you did in the past even just through unrated bgs. So, it should continue to be a great way to spend 30-40 minutes when you don't have time to organize with others. " -Kalgan,
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1&pageNo=3#56

And I find it a bit unfair to peg every arena player who queues for BGs as "that guy who sits in the back AFKing and bragging about it". That's just as ignorant a statement as saying "Every casual pug BG player is bad and detrimental to the team". It's not clear cut in any situation. I like the idea of Rated BGs. Will players ALWAYS use them? No, sometimes they too will want to solo queue and enter the unrated BG's and I'm sure this will be fairly common.
Why should players of a certain level (supposedly "elitist") not be allowed to play with other players of the same gear/experience level if they so choose? It's like saying it's elitist to want to progress to be with a group of like-minded and experienced people. I personally would be glad that full furious geared groups/premades are LESS likely to be in my alt's pug BG while I'm just trying to do a bit of PvP, get some honor, and getting used to my class. Those people who are more geared towards competitive team play won't be smashing pugs 100% of the time anymore, I reckon. All in all, it probably pays to just wait and see what else is said about the system by the developers.

Unrated BG's obviously aren't going away. Its a lame response however to the FACT that almost everyone that enjoyed BG's were expecting a lot more from Rated BG's, not this bullshit response of "well you can still play what you've been playing for the last 3 years for crap" if our Rated BG design doesn't include you :P Kalgan is such a ignorant piece of shit. Fact is everybody is/was expecting a lot more than a replica of the Arena system, and BG's were always looked at like a less serious form of PvP than Arena play, but now they are turning it into Arena. If you don't think so fine, but don't say i didn't tell you so when they finally come. Just read blue quotes and what they talked about as Blizzcon since i think its pretty obvious what they intend at this point.

I'm not saying players shouldn't be able to play with other top players, but i am saying its a problem for everyone else that isn't a top player because they end up excluded or have a very difficult time being included in that activity. You don't think its a problem that every aspect of this game has gone further and further into an elitist exclusiveness type of dynamic? And things continue to go further along this path? I do.

I don't think i myself will have much of an issue finding a team to play for, but there are just a lot of aspects of this i find retarded or just lame, based on Developer game design.

[Deleted]

Dude,

Just as pugging Ulduar will give you a long night of wipes and a sub-5% chance to get a loot,so will pugging a rated BG.

Reliably getting arena gear through the rated BG system will require you,and rightly so,to belong to a PVP GUILD which programs and coordinates its activities.

As i previously said,you can't get raid-ilvl items through solo-pug play.Not reliably,at least.Sorry.