Koralon Mentallity

[Kobrakette]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

We run it for free purples before we go TotC10 or Ulduar sometimes, if we have Wintergrasp. Sort of like a over-rewarding warm-up, if you will.

[Archimand]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

lol you fail badly if you think so my guild rund it to get some gear for heroic toc 10/25

[.Nensec]

Had this last night aswell, killed korolan after many wipes and many replacements and while there were still ~7 people at korolan waiting for loot the tank pulled emalon trash. Needless to say the dps was not high enough and we suddenly found everything rather dead and the raid rather empty within seconds ;s

[D44N]

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...gnoreMore.html

Throw every leaving retard on permignore with a nice note added with:

CT_Core.

I got a good... ~200-300 (maybe more) retards on my permignore list, and the funny thing is. I'm one of the guys making succesful pugs and known for distribute fair. So ones people get on my permignorelsit, they find themselves overtime pretty screwed (Since i'm also a known JC+enchanter and yeah.. with all the ninjas on my server it's a harsh harsh place =)).

[draconnie]

For most decent raiding guilds I suppose emalon is pretty abundant, and the focus for loot can be put on Koralon.

For PuG's however this is far from true as these are used by many people to gear up.

Assuming average drops and a decent guild, it takes about 12-14 weeks to give all 25 raiders 5/5 T8

I assume you mean 5/5 T8.5, and not a mix of 8.25 and 8.5 ?

The 25-men gloves in Ulduar drop from Mimiron. We have downed him 14 times until now(which is far from crappy I guess). Of these 14 times, there were 6 Vanquisher token drops, and these were to be divided among 3 rogues, 3 DK's, 4 druids and 2 mages, which means only half of these do have their gloves from Ulduar.
A raiding guild doesn't exist out of 25 people that raid 100% of the time, but out of 35-50 (sometimes more) people that raid frequently, and all these people need gearup to be succesful.(and as someone else pointed out, we have offspecs as well)

It was a luck that the 10-men bosses had different tier items on different bosses, or there would have been alot of us that had to wait long to get a 4pT8 bonus.
Emalon made this easier by dropping tier gear.

[Javanface]

My guild generally runs it at the beginning of end of raid time just because it's practically free tier loot. It doesn't make any sense not to since you know you'll get it done and there's no risk you'll end up losing that bit of gear you need to someone who's getting carried. If your guild doesn't, its a shame, but you'll find alot of bad or unmotivated players in pugs.

[Deleted]

i still think the bosses in VoA should be consecutive, in that you HAVE to kill archavon to reach emalon, then after killing emalon koralon is opened.

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

This please

[fl4shi]

maybe its just me
but i never got any loot from ema/kora/archa...
i always already had what they dropped
or i lost against some 1k dps/hpsish boon
:/

[Ravasha]

It's always the same with PuGs.
1 wipe and some will leave because they think they're too good for the others. You replace them and wipe again, now half of the raid will leave and it's too hard to make the group full again 20 minutes after Wintergrasp.

[Racetrack]

But yes, my 2 cents.

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

Thought it was a good idea at first but then i thought about it and it's not. If you are in a Pug then killing Arch first would get you saved. If the pug struggles on Emalon/Koralon then you are saved for that week. It's true, people would be less likely to just leave after a couple of wipes but if you are in a bad pug (and who hasn't been?) that is incapable of doing it then that's it for the week.

You will always have idiots in a pug. Selfish people who are only out for their own best interests without a care for anyone else. There is nothing anyone can do about that. However doing Koralon first is the only way to go unless Blizzard redesigns it and makes it 3 separate raids or makes the entrance neutral so more guilds are able to schedule it and do it in their own time without having to rely on something that is essentially out of their hands.

[veemon_ro]

i still think the bosses in VoA should be consecutive, in that you HAVE to kill archavon to reach emalon, then after killing emalon koralon is opened. When i rerolled to join a mate on a diff server, i could NEVER get into voa groups (this was pre-3.2, so just arc and ema) simply because i wasnt geared for emalon. Now i can understand thing, but i think people have gotten too selfish in that they will get a raid for emalon, do it, and will only do arc for shits and giggles cos they obviously dont NEED the loot if they can do emalon easy enough. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense on blizzards part, to make content unavailable due to the fact that noone will do it. Sure it's still there... but find me a raid that will just do arc, or at least do arc first THEN emalon. I don't expect to be carried through Emalon, i'm happy to be replaced if my deeps suck ass.

But yes, my 2 cents.

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

10 lines of text are too long for you and you can't read that?! This just shows the IQ of some of the posters here.

I bealive voa shouldn't exist at all to be honest. Its purpose is to keep people interested in doing wintergrasp, how ever in cataclysm the purpose of doing the new "wintergrasp" would be to gain access to better and far more rewarding quest chains so they probably won't add a "new voa".

[Wysmark]

VoA is a ridiculous feature...and combined with making heroics so easy that you'd never run a normal dungeon, its the biggest fail-feature of wotlk....hope we're spared such noob-gearing in cataclysm

As for the original post...you stay till job is done.. a few wipes in naxx dont mean i abandon a pug either

People who only stays for whatever content that gear them up are common in pugs...no raid guilds want em

[shadet]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

We do VoA 25 man as a guild up to the point it holds no upgrades anymore. Currently, getting 2pc T9.2 for 5 mins work makes more sense to throw in a quick run before Uld / ToC than ignoring and hoping people can be successful at PuGs

[Offhand]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

Pssh, any guild with half a brain realizes that free tier 9 is free tier 9 regardless of how easy the content is. All of the high end guilds on my server run VoA 25 as scheduled content at least for the first month or two until the tier becomes way more common and not as highly sought after. It's just plain stupid to expect people to pug it when you're going to be rolling against fail-puggies 1, 2 and, 3 who probably aren't even the correct spec for what they're rolling on.

[kmp1331]

Pssh, any guild with half a brain realizes that free tier 9 is free tier 9 regardless of how easy the content is. All of the high end guilds on my server run VoA 25 as scheduled content at least for the first month or two until the tier becomes way more common and not as highly sought after. It's just plain stupid to expect people to pug it when you're going to be rolling against fail-puggies 1, 2 and, 3 who probably aren't even the correct spec for what they're rolling on.

^This. We dropped out of Ulduar once alliance got WG because it was 5 minutes of work for basically guaranteed upgrades for someone in the raid. Then we went back into Ulduar and continued

[safeharbour@optonline.net]

And of course no one is going to join a group with the new boss down so we have to abandon Emalon, which still had upgrades for several members and most of us could use offset/PvP gear.

The mistake you made was giving up.

Plenty of people might realize that they are not geared enough for Koralon, but will take a crack at the remaining bosses. They might not even understand how well geared they are / aren't, but will take on a chance to do anything in AoV for some emblems. (The person may decide to use an alt he / she is gearing up.)

As you yourself said, there is still gear from Emalon that would be an upgrade.

Did you at least send someone to Dalaran to spam trade?

[Evilmaniac]

I've always played by this for my guild and for pugs. i don't simply abandon cause of a wipe or 2, but i will notify them i'm leaving if it looks like it is impossible after a how many ever attempts.

Edit: Bolded the part relevant to the conversation

Death and Taxes

In any case that's not why you're reading this, is it. So if it wasn't lousy encounter design, shitty loot, cockblocks, etc, than what was it? The most fundamental currency there is in WoW. People. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that they were bigger than the guild. That what they wanted was more important than what was good for the guild. That somehow they deserved respect just for being around. And other people just stopped caring. Not only did they stop caring, but they didn't have the common decency to quit, they hung around for whatever reasons promising us they were going to be there, and we foolishly believed them out of loyalty for what we'd been through together. We had officers who couldn't take a stand any more and made decisions based on what was 'easy'. We had OFFICERS who disappeared with no notice, and would come and go as they pleased, yet still felt entitled to make decisions about where we were going. There is no 1 person's shoulder to place this on, it was a group effort.

Let's talk about a few important words here.

According to dictionary.com
Quote:
Progress - gradual improvement or growth or development

That's right GRADUAL. Progress doesn't happen all in 1 night, but apparently some people that we had here didn't understand that. They thought bosses just fell over the first night because of the tag over their head, and the most important thing was how much damage they could do at all times. Newsflash - it doesn't work like that. It's pretty ironic that the first people to jump ship when progress wasn't going fast enough, were the same ones jerking off in the 5man, and holding up the raid on the first day. Progress takes time, and world firsts don't fall from the sky, they're the result of a lot of hard work, and effort. The reputation of this guild was built on the backs of a lot of hard work and dedication from EVERYONE. The guild was bigger than any of us, and we knew it. Which leads into the second word.

Pride. Once upon a time we had pride. Pride in our guild, pride in ourselves, pride in what we'd done. Pride is showing up and giving your best effort, ESPECIALLY when you don't want to be there, because your guildmates deserve that. We didn't always get world firsts, it's impossible to always be first, that's just not how the game works, but we showed up every day, EARLY and busted our asses, and we were proud of what we accomplished, be it world first or world 1000th. We didn't whine or complain about our fucking groups, or worry about loot. We killed bosses. Period. We gave our best effort because those around us deserved it, because the guild deserved it. We had pride about what we had done, not what those before us had done. But we also didn't have false pride. Once upon a time when people couldn't or didn't want to keep up the raiding schedule, they had the guts and decency to let the rest of us know. Now they slink off into the night without even a word.

Some people will say, they have no ill will towards those who neglected us during progress. Who stopped showing up once things got hard. Who left at the first opportunity. I'm not one of them. To anyone who jumped ship, I'm going to be honest. I have no respect for you. You all claimed you wanted to be members of this guild, you came here, we geared you, and that set an expectation down for you. That you were one of us, just like those who paved the way for you. You turned your back on that, and the last person is just as guilty as the first.

A lot of you might think Death and Taxes died this week, but for those of us who have been here for a long time we know that isn't true. Death and Taxes died a long time ago. We still killed bosses every week, but the spirit was long gone. The swagger you all came to know and love from us had evaporated. Some of us still carried it, and the guild, but the new people never quite got it. In the end Death and Taxes turned into any other guild, a job for the mercenaries who came here. They logged in at 7, picked up their epics, and logged off until the next raid, and that was never what we were about. We were about having fun, and being irreverent, and being honest with ourselves and each other.

[Kallixenia]

…My solution is two-fold. Due to the new loot trade feature, I am not giving out loot until the very end, also will NEVER do Koralon first again.

I tried this last night, and it actually worked.

I made a 10-man all-PuG raid right after winning WG, and after basic gear checks, told everyone in it that due to people ditching and leaving everyone else locked to a VoA with 2 bosses up and no hope of getting replacements, all loot will be held for trade until Archie drops.

I also informed them that the loot window was 2 hours, and since WG is every 2 hours, we'd have to be finished before the timers were up, so nobody can complain about the gear getting locked.

I will admit, 3 people dumped group right off the bat, but we found replacements and ran it with little issue.

One warrior wanted to roll loot after Emalon, because he didn't care about Archie. I told him, the rules were as they stood, and all loot would be rolled at the end in descending order of iLevel. If he didn't like it, he was free to take his current badges and leave, since 9-manning Archie is hardly an issue if you can drop Emalon.

At the end, everyone rolled, gear was handed out, and everyone but the warrior said they were adding me to their friends list, and to call them if I was ever in need.

[Rilgon]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA.

My guild runs it weekly if ownership of Wintergrasp falls in our normal raid window. Easy Arena gear for our people that like to Arena + more T8.5 (and now more T9L2) for people that need it (especially since we have a severe lack of Vanquisher drops). *shrug*

[Parabolyc]

LOL@THE FAIL