How am I doing as a Tank?

[getefix]

Agree with Getefix.

Here is my armor link, anyone have any opinons about my spec/gear/etc. Thanks

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ream&n=Drystan

I have the Hart of the Iron and The Black Hart. I normally use the DMC: Agility and Hart of the Iron.

Too much expertise gemming and enchanting imo. If you replace 1 item with an item with expertise on it, you can switch out all those gems and enchants for something else. You normally find ~40+ expertise on current items. As well, you're super low on hit so look for another 1 or 2 items out there that you can get some hit with. Normally I'd find some item upgrades for you, but it's the weekend and I don't feel like it :P

As well, there's a couple upgrades for your cloak. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45319 is pretty easy to get, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47275 is a bit harder but will help expertise instead of hit.

I'd replace KotJ with Imp Mangle, or take another 2 points out of Furor and get NSS and MSS for 4% more damage.

Aside from that, you have better gear than I do :P

[Antdog]

Thank Getefix

What is a healthy amount of hit and expertise for a bear tank. I can't find it anywhere. Not looking for a specific numbers, just a good range to be at for both stats.

I think MSS costs far too much, plus i don't have any problems with threat. 4% extra damage all the time vs +15% damage once a min. I have enough TPS to not need 4% damage, and the 15% damage (threat) is good when I need it. Plus the shape shift cost reduction is nice as well.

Cloack of the makers has not been good to me. Only two drops, and both when I was not raiding, other guild tanks got it....lol

[Sunshine]

What is a healthy amount of hit and expertise for a bear tank. I can't find it anywhere. Not looking for a specific numbers, just a good range to be at for both stats.

It's good to be over 26 expertise so you're at least dodge-capped. As far as hit, anything from 200-ish up should be fine. I wouldn't necessarily recommend gemming for either, though, unless you're having issues.

I think MSS costs far too much, plus i don't have any problems with threat. 4% extra damage all the time vs +15% damage once a min. I have enough TPS to not need 4% damage, and the 15% damage (threat) is good when I need it. Plus the shape shift cost reduction is nice as well.

I don't use MSS, but I do recommend you take imp mangle. You don't need 5 points in furor -- take 2 out of there and 1 out of KotJ to get it. You get extra mangles, plus you keep the damage boost (albeit not quite as strong, but still good enough).

[Kairu]

Also consider upgrading your idol via conquest badges. Idol of the corrupter is the exact same idol you use, but 153 agi.

[Djinni]

I dunno how people manage to judge tanks solely based on HP.... Im a bear tank, and maintank 25man Ulduar, ToC (hardmodes) just fine I only have about 34k hp unbuffed in bear form....

Also if like me, you find yourself switching between cat and bear quite frequently the Idol of Mutilation is very nice... I'd probably even take it over the pure agility one...

And whichever numnut suggested to take Impoved Mangle.... you seriously need to learn to play... Improved Mangle does next to nothing for any feral... even in PvP these days.

Hit all physical DPS require 9% to 'not miss' and 6.5% expertise to not be dodged.... (26 expertise) Hit should be pretty easy to get just through gear alone.... expertise might require a few gems to help you along the way.

[Antdog]

And whichever numnut suggested to take Impoved Mangle.... you seriously need to learn to play... Improved Mangle does next to nothing for any feral... even in PvP these days.

I don't believe Improved Mangle is all that great either. I find myself trying to fit another mangle when im trying to stack lacerate, because i have improved mangle. I really don't see a good enough reason to lower Mangle's CD by 1.5 seconds, I could always just toss another lacerate, or swipe, or FFF.

Plus, KoTJ gives you another button to push for threat tanking and burning down mobs. Just seems funner and more of an agressive style of tanking.

Hit all physical DPS require 9% to 'not miss' and 6.5% expertise to not be dodged.... (26 expertise) Hit should be pretty easy to get just through gear alone.... expertise might require a few gems to help you along the way.

AND

It's good to be over 26 expertise so you're at least dodge-capped. As far as hit, anything from 200-ish up should be fine. I wouldn't necessarily recommend gemming for either, though, unless you're having issues.

Thank you.

[Onatala]

Some of you really want me to slap you silly, some of you want me to head desk pretty hard.. the rest of you made me facepalm.

I took a quick glance at your armory profile and as far as I can tell, you have good gear from the 10 trial of crusader but there's a few things I want to point out: Your dodge % is fine, your armor is fine, your crit % is fine, low hit, low exp, low stam... I personally find that the 38% dodge unbuffed is all you really need and from there, you start stacking stam for survivability. At the same time you also want to have good amount of threat to actually hold mobs from various type of aoe.

You don't need Shredding Attacks and Predatory Instincts in a Bear build. They're cat talents and they'll provide a minimal tps increase. Go with either Imp Mangle or MSS.

I went for Imp Mangle because mange does a fair amount of threat along with Kotj (2/3 points tho) vs the 4% dmg from all attacks. This will change at lvl 85 cap.

Ring of Invincibility ?
You are aware that druids use agility for dodge, armour and crit?

You're aware that ring is meant for dps? Someone already pointed out that it is not a tanking ring and there are other types that is much much better itemization for your stats. Get rid of that ring and replace it with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40718 since it also have exp AND hit. You have enough dodge % to lose that ring.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47731 isn't that good for me, it has nice stamina yes, but it also have alot of defense / strength, which isn't that useful.
We've not moved onto IC yet, but Razorscales' ring may be upgrade for me, asuming it drops and i win the troll..

@Trollpatroll - You make it sound like agility is bad, some of those rings are an upgrade yes, but they also have thigns i don't need, such as stregnth and defense (hit and expertise too to a lesser extent)

This sorta shows why you're labeled as a "bad druid tank" because you think str, exp, and hit are not important stats. They are most needed for raids. Your other ring that you got from totc (the one with parry.. lol) get rid of that ring too and get the clutch of fort.

I just feel it's more useful to have something with stats that are worth stacking.

If you want to stack something, stack stam. You are dodge capped (in theory, do you really need more than 40%?) Stacking AGI only hurts yourself in the long run because since 3.0 Blizz has added the DR on dodge. No matter how high your avoidance will be, you will get hit. Also stacking AGI gives you low stam count and it can be really bad for some boss encounters that could, and would, most likely one shot you.

Too much HP, too little dodge and crit

Since when there is "too much hp" as a tank?

Either gem pure for agi or stam, but not half stam or half agi.

??? The best druid tanks stacks both agi and stam as a fair balance.. not too much agi and no loss on stam. ???

What is a healthy amount of hit and expertise for a bear tank

8% hit (263 ratings) and 26 expretise (214 ratings for dodge cap (132 if talented)) OR 56 exp (460 ratings for parry (379 if talented))

And whichever numnut suggested to take Impoved Mangle.... you seriously need to learn to play... Improved Mangle does next to nothing for any feral... even in PvP these days.

You need to L2Tank because Imp Mangle gives the same threat value as Ferie Fire and having shorter mangle cd allows you to pump lots of tps. You should try to tank General Vezax with everyone on your balls. Hodir even.

In a given stats for a bear tank you pretty much need: more than 40% dodge self buffed and procs, 8% hit, 26% exp (or 56 if you have the gear to eliminate parry), and lots of stam.

[Djinni]

You need to L2Tank because Imp Mangle gives the same threat value as Ferie Fire and having shorter mangle cd allows you to pump lots of tps. You should try to tank General Vezax with everyone on your balls. Hodir even.

Actually I do... as I said... and have MT'd them on HardMode too... point for point even KotJ works out at a higher TPS value (not to mention you can actually do some damage in cat form with KotJ whereas again imp Mangle is next to useless)

Try actually crunching the numbers before you behave like an elitist. And using your brain.... why spend talent points on improving a skill to the point where its as good as just using another skill that needs none?

I hit 7k TPS pretty easy (unbuffed 8-9k with raid buffs) and I only use mangle whenever its about to fall off, rest of the time is keeping lacerate up, swiping and FF (ofc maul all the time).

[DarknessoftheWolf]

I love how people say druid tanks suck... the saddest part is I have a druid tank on the PTRs that has NEVER lost aggro and all I do is swipe spam

[Djinni]

I love how people say druid tanks suck... the saddest part is I have a druid tank on the PTRs that has NEVER lost aggro and all I do is swipe spam

I think its more that most people are favoring the DK tanks .... less to do supposedly easier to heal... etc... and very much like the Kitty DPS, and if you tell a feral tank (s)he sucks (s)he is much more likely to go DPS or Heal both of which are very favored roles for a druid.

[Cardrels]

To the OP...

Your stats don't look to bad, I didn't get a chance to look at your gear though. Here is my armory...

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Eatmorechkn

My stats in bear are...

HP - 31857 (with Valor Medal of the First War) or 33,727 (with The Black Heart)
Dodge - 41.15% (with VMotFW) or 39.92% (with TBH)
Armor - 27145
Crit - 40.00%

In case you are wondering why I'm listing both trinkets, it's because I will equip VMotFW untill I proc it then I equip TBH while its on CD. It seems like a hassle but it isn't suppose to be easy being a good tank. If you haven't macro'd Maul to all of your other skills then I reccomend you do it. It will make tanking much easier for raids and 5 mans. I also recomend making a macro that looks something like...

#showtooltip
/cast Frenzied Regeneration
/cast enrage
/cast Barkskin
/cast Survival Instincts
/cast Lifeblood ( if you have it)
/use Endless health potion (or Runic Health Potion if you aren't a alch)
/use Fel Healthstone

That is what I call my "Oh shit!" Button. Saved my life so many times now I can't even begin to explain.

[blizzy]

Since when there is "too much hp" as a tank?

Simple: HP serves no other purpose than to act as a "buffer" for large hits, or when your healers have to do something else (run, heal other people, die and get battle-rezzed). You don't need ANY HP beyond that buffer.

Edit: Typo.

[Sunshine]

- Melee hit cap is 8%, not 9% (changed from BC). That's 263 hit rating. You don't need to be at hit cap to tank, nor do you need to be capped on expertise. Hit and expertise are both helpful for threat, though.

- If you never drop below 20k hp, you've got too much stam. Sure, it's not hurting you by being there, but it's wasted when you could have more dodge instead. More dodge never hurts (yes, even after 40%, it still continues to be fantastic), whereas more stam becomes pointless after so much.

- Mangle is worth significantly more threat than lacerate or swipe. Imp mangle makes our highest threat ability usable more frequently. No, imp mangle is not a requirement, nor is MSS. Having one or the other helps. KotJ is nice to have, but it's not a replacement, especially when you can have 2/3 the benefit in addition to imp mangle.

An example... Rawr says mangle is worth on average 5300 threat to me (with standard raid buffs and no procs), whereas swipe is 2500 and lacerate initial hit is 1200 threat. Even faerie fire is only worth 3600 threat. In the time it takes you to do 3 mangles, I get to do 4.

MSS is a constant boost to all of these including maul (average of 9300 threat), which is why it's also a good choice. Suppose you have X tps, and for 10 seconds every minute you can do 15% additional threat from KotJ. Total threat for the minute will be 1.15 * X * 10 seconds + 1 * X * 50 seconds = 61.5 * X. If you take MSS instead, you're at 1.04 * X * 60 seconds = 62.4 * X, plus you're not making yourself more vulnerable through the armor debuff.

- Strength and defense both have their place. Defense isn't worth quite as much avoidance as agility point-for-point, but there is some nice gear with both defense and dodge that will have more total avoidance than a typical agi dps item. Of course, the other stats (crit vs armor; expertise and hit; etc) matter as well, which is why it's an interesting choice; just don't completely dismiss the "traditional" tank gear without a fair comparison.

[Lyren]

MSS is a constant boost to all of these including maul (average of 9300 threat), which is why it's also a good choice. Suppose you have X tps, and for 10 seconds every minute you can do 15% additional threat from KotJ. Total threat for the minute will be 1.15 * X * 10 seconds + 1 * X * 50 seconds = 61.5 * X. If you take MSS instead, you're at 1.04 * X * 60 seconds = 62.4 * X, plus you're not making yourself more vulnerable through the armor debuff.

Correct, but it's no different from the DPS point of view where you have +100 static vs 300 on use for 20s every minute. A cooldown can be used in conjunction with *other* cooldowns, and/or at certain points in the fight to gain a *significant* boost. It's especially important to have those things because the DPS gains that huge DPS boost. If you aren't getting one too, they can gain on you too much.

I'm sure they don't overtake you in most cases, but the point of cooldown combining is still valid as a significant threat booster on the fights that would need it.

[tauromania]

Simple: HP serves no other purpose than to act as a "buffer" for large hits, or when your healers have to do something else (run, heal other people, die and get battle-rezzed). No don't need ANY HP beyond that buffer.

that was a very good reply, mate. for me KoTJ talent isn't so useful (sincerly my skin crawl at 17% less armor...). completly agreee with the 3 points in imp mangle. i've got sometimes problems with hit & expertise (on kel'tuzhad had miss/dodge/parry then miss on taunt..). In order of importance stats are:
Agility->Dodge->Sta->Exp/Hit->Crit->Defense (dodge & sta are pratically on the same level, just depends on how many dodge& or hp you have).
has glyph i use:
Major:
Frenezied Regeneration
Survival Instinct
Maul
Minor:
Challenging Roar
Thorns
Unburned rebirth/ Motw (the unburned rebirth may looks innapropiate for a tank, but in some fights is required to off-tank to sometimes ress-in-combat, and i'm greedy with reagents )

[Exerci]

In my honest opinion, Kotj is utter crap. There is no valid reason to use it unless there's a phase where the boss is afking or something. You don't need the rage from enrage, and in all honesty, the most important part of tanking is: Survive shit. The extra threat generated by enrage with Kotj isn't a valid reason to take a bunch of extra damage.

[Ozzy1346]

/sigh

get shoulder enchant. get +35agil for 2h not 26 for a 1h....

if your gonna use that deadly legs gem it 8agi/12stam. agi and stam is the most important things for druid tanks.

+20agil for gloves

+10stats to chest

no offence but your spec is really really bad.

the gear is good but enchants and 1 gem fails horribly. you really gotta fix your spec.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000

thats a great one. HUGE threat boost and no wasted points

[getefix]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000

thats a great one. HUGE threat boost and no wasted points

2 points wasted in furor instead of in Imp MotW. fail.

[Sunshine]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000

thats a great one. HUGE threat boost and no wasted points

No Primal Gore =

[Nomad]

Hey there, I didn't want to start a new thread, but if I could grab some advice on what to do next gear wise.
But be advised, I mostly don't raid, so my choices are emblems and crafted gear)

(I know about non-epic gems in gloves/shoulders, but I did plan on replacing them sometime soon.. so never got around gemming it)

I'm sitting at 33 triumph, and around 110 conq.

I'm thinking of buying a tanking ring for triumph emblems, and maybe getting conq gloves, but meh.

Armory with gear: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...imonde&n=Nomad
Armory with spec: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...mad&gn=Oinland

Bear form (just mark self buffed):

HP: 33597
Armor: 28747 (65.36%)
Dodge: 40.58% (with dmc and idol proc at the same time = around 47%)

Atk Power: 5139
Crit: 39.75%

Hit: 367 (I know, I know.. but can't really do anything about it atm)
Exp: 26

And with these stats, could I tank ToC 10, if I do decide to do some raiding?