Rate my tank? oO...

[sabredragon]

-facepalm-

So. Yeah. I'm a feral tank. And I do fairly decent. I don't have many issues at all with tps (despite my abysmally low hit and expertise X: ) or anything of the likes...

Edit: Lolz edit. I should remind everyone that my guild is largely just a 10-man casual guild. We don't do many 25s.

I was just wondering if people could give me some advice on things I could touch up on, though. Be it gear wise, spec wise, gem...enchant...etc.

(35k HP, 40% Dodge, 29.8k Armor, 4.8k AP, 40% crit self-buffed in bear form)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...uard&n=Roshawa

Also. I realize the ring of fail I have is...well...fail (Mark of the Relentless). But it was better than what I was carrying around at the time. <_<

I'm also trying to decide which item I should buy with my triumph badges first. Indecisive bear is indecisive. I'm leaning towards Clutch of Fortification to replace the stupid ring.

[bushidox]

ok here we go:

ur gears good, the only thing u lack is a bit of hit/expertise (as u noted urself) u realy could search for a bit of that gear.

the spec im not realy crazy about some things i would change myself:

i would take away natural shapeshifter and master shapeshifter and put those points in 5/5 furor, 1/1 feral charge and 2/2 imp leader of the pack

i dont think the benefit of 4% physical dammage is that much, and i dont think i ever was short of mana as a tank.
feral charge is nice to have a quick react to save people (sort of like intervene), where the 4% heal on every crit takes a bit of load away from ur healers, the 5/5 furor is just a 100% chance, i wouldnt want to depend on a chance for that starting rage.

the 10 rage is instant agro.

hope this helps

[sabredragon]

ok here we go:

ur gears good, the only thing u lack is a bit of hit/expertise (as u noted urself) u realy could search for a bit of that gear.

the spec im not realy crazy about some things i would change myself:

i would take away natural shapeshifter and master shapeshifter and put those points in 5/5 furor, 1/1 feral charge and 2/2 imp leader of the pack

i dont think the benefit of 4% physical dammage is that much, and i dont think i ever was short of mana as a tank.
feral charge is nice to have a quick react to save people (sort of like intervene), where the 4% heal on every crit takes a bit of load away from ur healers, the 5/5 furor is just a 100% chance, i wouldnt want to depend on a chance for that starting rage.

the 10 rage is instant agro.

hope this helps

Well, the reason I don't have Imp LotP is because in the 10-man group, we typically have a Feral Cat along with myself in the group (although I've been flip-flopping between feral and tree lately, as healers are fairly lacking on my server), and he has Imp LotP while I manglebot in his place. The only real benefit I get from having Imp LotP myself is the mana gain, which...yeah. I don't particularly need.

I've also been told all over the place that having 5/5 Furor is a waste, which I happen to agree with. I get the 10 rage while having 3/5 90% of the time, and with the Enrage change, it doesn't matter anyways since that's an instant +20 Rage, then 10 over a few seconds. xD I think the points in Furor is just a personal preference sort of thing for a lot of people.

I was actually thinking about taking the points out of Imp Mangle (our Feral Cat isn't used to having another feral Druid, and he uses mangle a lot out of habit. :P That and whenever I'm tree, he has to do it anyways.) and using those three points for Feral Charge and KotJ.

[idz]

I don't recommend stacking agility as a tank since the nerf of both dodge and agility.

All i can say is that my healers are really pleased with me gemming stamina as i am reaching 55k fully raidbuffed.

And i can say that stacking stamina acually helped my TPS... sure, i loose some crit... but im not even close to be as ragestarved as i were when stacking agi and using dodgetrinkets. (and acually harder to heal because they became slackers when i dodged too much, and then BAM, 2 hits, dead.)

So my recommendation to you is to stack stam, in all spots, all the time. Screw agi-socket bonuses(use stam-ones if you gain agi and only loose 2-3 stam on it)

I am fairly good geared, sitting at 43.6k hp selfbuffed (only motw), 29815 armor, 39.58% dodge, 45 exp, 200 hit and 5.5k AP and 38% crit.

otherwise your gear is more than enough to do totc and u10 hards.

[tauromania]

i will throw away those points in primal precision, natural & master shapeshifter.
i think feral charge is a must-one talent (found very useful in fight like sartarion, malygos and boss-movement encounter). leader of the pack for me is a basic talent, but that's becuase usually we haven't another feral druid. with gems i use this setup: red one agi, blu sta, yellow or agi/hit or sta/hit (of course if u need hit or the soket bonus) i haven't an exeptional gear (naxx 10 + emblems) and i have 34k hp, 44% dodge, 30k armor, 45% crit, with 18 expertise and 110 hit. for now this type of gemming is going well, must see when i'll start ulduar...

[rated]

I don't recommend stacking agility as a tank since the nerf of both dodge and agility.

All i can say is that my healers are really pleased with me gemming stamina as i am reaching 55k fully raidbuffed.

And i can say that stacking stamina acually helped my TPS... sure, i loose some crit... but im not even close to be as ragestarved as i were when stacking agi and using dodgetrinkets. (and acually harder to heal because they became slackers when i dodged too much, and then BAM, 2 hits, dead.)

So my recommendation to you is to stack stam, in all spots, all the time. Screw agi-socket bonuses(use stam-ones if you gain agi and only loose 2-3 stam on it)

I am fairly good geared, sitting at 43.6k hp selfbuffed (only motw), 29815 armor, 39.58% dodge, 45 exp, 200 hit and 5.5k AP and 38% crit.

otherwise your gear is more than enough to do totc and u10 hards.

the agility nerf was really insignificant, unless you're gear was crap to begin with. Being a stam stacker is still not an option unless you're running hard modes in ulduar.

stam doesnt help with threat. im sorry, theres just no possible way that it can.

[getefix]

i will throw away those points in primal precision, natural & master shapeshifter.
i think feral charge is a must-one talent (found very useful in fight like sartarion, malygos and boss-movement encounter). leader of the pack for me is a basic talent, but that's becuase usually we haven't another feral druid. with gems i use this setup: red one agi, blu sta, yellow or agi/hit or sta/hit (of course if u need hit or the soket bonus) i haven't an exeptional gear (naxx 10 + emblems) and i have 34k hp, 44% dodge, 30k armor, 45% crit, with 18 expertise and 110 hit. for now this type of gemming is going well, must see when i'll start ulduar...

What? Throw away Primal Precision? Are you nuts? You have 18 expertise with it, that'll put you down to 8 expertise without it. You should be AT LEAST at 26, but even higher is better.

I'm never rage starved and I gem almost full agility. The only time I'm rage starved is when I'm tanking some random single trash mob and who the hell cares? Some healers may say they like it when tanks are more predictable (low dodge, high hp) but they forget that when they screw up and get silenced or have to move while the tank is getting beat on, that avoidance will be the only thing keeping him from getting killed. My threat is quite good considering the gear I'm in.

As for KotJ vs imp mangle vs MSS, it's all up to you. I like MSS because it's passive. I can concentrate more on what I'm doing and I don't have to worry about cooldowns and more mangles. I used to like imp mangle but it makes a lacerate parry or miss a little bit worse. For instance: If Mangle has 1.5 seconds left on CD you have 4 seconds left on your lacerate you should reapply Lacerate. If it gets parried, dodged or you miss, then you have to spend another GCD on it and losing the time that you would be mangling. The same situation can happen MSS, but it's less likely as you mangle less. I don't like KotJ because say you're in a situation where you're getting hit REALLY hard but you also need a lot of threat (Hodir, Vezax, TOGC), I'd rather not lose 1/4 of my armor for more threat.

Like I said, just personal preference, but MSS doesn't cause any kind of change to the way you play, it's completely passive.

5/5 Furor is a complete waste. Don't get it, don't waste your time. As long as you have enough mana for 3 shapeshifts, it's a completely wasted stat. If you could progress through the tree with 1/5 then we would suggest that.

Gear is good cept OoN is getting dated. If you can get a new weapon from Uld or ToC then you'll notice a big TPS increase. My dps went up by a lot after replacing it with Twin's Pact (Lupine Longstaff's equivalent)

[sabredragon]

the agility nerf was really insignificant, unless you're gear was crap to begin with. Being a stam stacker is still not an option unless you're running hard modes in ulduar.

stam doesnt help with threat. im sorry, theres just no possible way that it can.

Aye. And I have a stam set if I've ever got the need for a bigger healthpool, so... That's not really an option for me. Evasion > Health.

Gear is good cept OoN is getting dated. If you can get a new weapon from Uld or ToC then you'll notice a big TPS increase. My dps went up by a lot after replacing it with Twin's Pact (Lupine Longstaff's equivalent)

I was content with ignoring the comment he made about primal precision. ;D

Anyways, care to give me a tip for a good replacement for Origin? I don't do many 25-mans (we do Naxx 25 every two weeks, and even then it doesn't always get off the ground... :/), so Twin's Pact is out of the question.

Right now, I have OoN, Journey's End, Marrowstrike, and Spire of Withering Dreams sittin' on my character right now.

[getefix]

Anyways, care to give me a tip for a good replacement for Origin? I don't do many 25-mans (we do Naxx 25 every two weeks, and even then it doesn't always get off the ground... :/), so Twin's Pact is out of the question.

Right now, I have OoN, Journey's End, Marrowstrike, and Spire of Withering Dreams sittin' on my character right now.

Best and easiest option is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47911, but http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46033 will do

[sabredragon]

Best and easiest option is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47911, but http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46033 will do

Ironically, my 10-man group can do 10-man TotC with few issues...however we're stuck on Mimiron in Ulduar, lol. Anguish is lookin' pretty good, I'll be hoping it drops when we do TotC next week...and the week after...etc. lol

Except that the Ret Paladin and Feral Cat will both be rolling against me, lol.

[Sunshine]

Right now, I have OoN, Journey's End, Marrowstrike, and Spire of Withering Dreams sittin' on my character right now.

Marrowstrike would be a great upgrade, of the ones you have. Or Journey's End if you want a bit more threat.

[getefix]

Except that the Ret Paladin and Feral Cat will both be rolling against me, lol.

Psh, the Feral Cat can get better so tell him to sod off.

[idz]

the agility nerf was really insignificant, unless you're gear was crap to begin with. Being a stam stacker is still not an option unless you're running hard modes in ulduar.

stam doesnt help with threat. im sorry, theres just no possible way that it can.

Even if it was insignificant i still prefer 12k more hp than like 2% dodge. It just makes it so much easier for everyone. even me, since my cooldowns gives me even more hp. (healers having to run away from me? isnt it better to rely on a crazy hp-pool than RNG?) referring to vezax, as the only fight you kite the boss(on which you now are standing still on and pop barkskin). That will never occur in ulduar, or any other fight in the game at this point.

And beeing ragestarved was back before 3.2, when i was at 57% dodge raidbuffed... with dodgetrinkets and agigems.

[getefix]

Even if it was insignificant i still prefer 12k more hp than like 2% dodge. It just makes it so much easier for everyone. even me, since my cooldowns gives me even more hp. (healers having to run away from me? isnt it better to rely on a crazy hp-pool than RNG?) referring to vezax, as the only fight you kite the boss(on which you now are standing still on and pop barkskin). That will never occur in ulduar, or any other fight in the game at this point.

And beeing ragestarved was back before 3.2, when i was at 57% dodge raidbuffed... with dodgetrinkets and agigems.

I have over 60% dodge with my idol and I never have rage problems. With Druid healers giving you rage, dodging giving you rage, critting giving you rage, Lacerate ticks proccing OoC, and 1 hit fills your rage bar, it's pretty damn impossible to be rage starved in raids.

As for 2% dodge vs 12k hp? gtfo.
Dire Bear Form, Heart of the Wild, Imp Mark of the Wild, Survival of the Fittest are all your talent and spell modifiers. I can't remember if Stam is additive or multiplicative from the talents and Bear form but I think it's additive with MotW, SotF, and HotW and multiplicative with Bear form. That gives a 47.5% increase in stamina, as well as an 8% increase in agility.
So...

Lets just talk gemming: 9 agility gems will give you 180 agility * 8% gives 194, with ~47 agility needed for 1% dodge. 9 Agility gems will give you 4% dodge (4.13%). 9 Stamina gems will give you 270 Stamina *47.5% gives 398, or 3980 HP.
You can add kings on top of both of those to compare 4.5% dodge to 4380 HP.

Even if the multiplicative and additive choices that i made were ass backwards, it's still not going to give you 2% dodge vs 12k HP. It's pretty evident that you can chose between 1% dodge and 1k HP. With 50% dodge, these are the chances that you'll be hit by consecutive attacks:
1: 50%
2: 25%
3: 12.5%
4: 6.25%
5: 3.13%
6: 1.56%
7: 0.78%
Because it's 50% dodge (50/50 chance), this list also works for dodge chances. You have a 6.25% chance to dodge 4 out of 4 attacks, or be hit with 4/4 attacks, with an 87.5% chance to be hit by 1-3 attacks. If a boss hits for ~18k, you need 36k to handle 2 consecutive hits, or 54k to handle 3. However, there's a 12.5% chance that you're going to be hit by 3 out of 3 consecutive attacks, as well, you have cooldowns, trinkets, and hots so as long as you're watching your health you'll live.

Your cooldowns help? really? with 55k HP, your survival instincts (glyphed) gives you almost 80k HP. If you need 80k HP then you need to replace your healers. MY 65k HPs after Survival Instincts is always enough for my healers to save me. I have never died while under Survival Instincts unless it was to an enraged hit or something that was designed to kill me (void zone, yes I've stood in one before, at least I'll admit it).

You have to kite Ignis, Razorscale, Auriaya, Hodir, Freya, Vezax, even Mimiron at some points.

You wrote so little, yet so much of it was blatantly wrong that I just couldn't help myself. Sorry for the book.

[Sunshine]

compare 4.5% dodge to 4380 HP

This is a similar tradeoff to what I usually see -- 1k hp per 1% dodge. There are a few select pieces at better tradeoffs (1k hp for .5% dodge, etc) which I keep as my stam set.

12k hp vs 2% dodge is beyond exaggeration.

[blizzy]

Because it's 50% dodge (50/50 chance), this list also works for dodge chances. You have a 6.25% chance to dodge 4 out of 4 attacks, or be hit with 4/4 attacks, with an 87.5% chance to be hit by 1-3 attacks. If a boss hits for ~18k, you need 36k to handle 2 consecutive hits, or 54k to handle 3. However, there's a 12.5% chance that you're going to be hit by 3 out of 3 consecutive attacks, as well, you have cooldowns, trinkets, and hots so as long as you're watching your health you'll live.

This. The more dodge you get, the more useless stamina becomes as a stat beyond a "buffer." Excellent explanation there.

[Rikkuu]

Nice explanation for sure...but show me which hardmode boss hits for 18k all the time

[blizzy]

I think that number is drawn out of thin air. You sure can adapt

[Sunshine]

Nice explanation for sure...but show me which hardmode boss hits for 18k all the time

You saying it's too high, or too low? Even the bosses in the first encounter of ToC 25 hardmode hit harder than that...