With ArP nerf, do we got back to Agi (Feral DPS)?

[FeralRage]

Armor Penetration Nerf in 3.2.2

The nerf to armor pen in 3.2.2 is intentional. Compared to the recent buff where we increased the value of armor rating to 125%, this nerf would take it back down to 110%. While we are still evaluating the effects of this change in the 3.2.2 build, we did want to let you know of the possibility in case you were about to spend a lot on armor pen gems.

In fact, this was really the point. Several melee specs (and Marksman hunters) had begun to focus on armor pen at the expense of all other stats. Gear without armor pen was being passed over and gem sockets were increasingly being filled with just this one stat. While every spec has stats that are more valuable than others, this one felt like it was starting to trump everything. Not coincidentally, characters stacking lots of armor pen were starting to do more damage than their peers and more damage than we were comfortable with.

This change is largely for PvE reasons, though we won't cry at all if melee damage in PvP drops a little as a result.

We're letting you know now so that this doesn't feel like a stealth nerf, assuming it goes live. While you might disagree or be frustrated by the change (though I also suspect it won't come as a surprise to many players), we ask that you try and keep your response to something appropriate for these forums.

My question is, will we have to stack agility now? Will ArP still be useful if you are above "X" ArP?

[Elunedra]

i think what realy happents is that 1 ArP rating is going to give less % of armor penetration

so that would mean that each point of ArP is worth less but ArP itself is still verry usefull. so i gues the 220 ArP point where u got to swap will be a bit higher like 300 before u should actualy shap to ArP but sofar it still seems better

[Phenomenal]

Yeah, it's not too bad.

Still a valuable statistic.
It also opens to using that Triumph badge Idol for DPSing, maybe.

[Jon]

Yeah, I heard 200 agi idol is pretty good.

[getefix]

Maybe? If you don't already you're a complete idiot.

But the thing is... 200 agility does not give you 203 more damage...it's much less. the 5% crit is the important part of the idol, and unless you're under ~50% crit, I would still go with the shred idol. If you don't have the trinket you're not an idiot as the Mutilation trinket is better for tanking and the Shred one is better for dpsing.

[Eldiur]

But the thing is... 200 agility does not give you 203 more damage...it's much less. the 5% crit is the important part of the idol, and unless you're under ~50% crit, I would still go with the shred idol. If you don't have the trinket you're not an idiot as the Mutilation trinket is better for tanking and the Shred one is better for dpsing.

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t49702-f...3/#post1370795

Mutilation is BiS

[SoulPoetry]

without any kind of math, i'm going to estimate that arp will still be better than agi with sufficient amounts of it, particularly when you don't have to Mangle.

[getefix]

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t49702-f...3/#post1370795

Mutilation is BiS

The rest of that thread goes on with people saying they've gotten better dps with the shred idol. Maybe it is biS, but I get higher dps with shred than I do with Mutilation.

[FeralRage]

Things went a little off-topic from pure ArP discussion but I am completely shocked about the triumph idol not being a huge upgrade. I thought that 200 agi was just straight 200+ AP. I guess not. I am using it and I have seen my DPS increase (although I have made other upgrades too so I can't really say anything).

[arel00]

If you're past the point where Mongoose overcomes Berserk for DPS, then you're at the point when Mutilation beats the Shred one (to make it a short story :P).

Regarding the nerf, we'll see. I'm a fan of agility stacking :P

[Doompanther]

For now I'm going to stick with armor pen... then after the nerf and after I see some math I might change to agi.

[enigmaran]

from what I can tell it seems that mathematically the change will cause the goal regarding arp from stacking towards the hard cap to going for the new soft cap plus trinket

[Lycanthro]

If you're past the point where Mongoose overcomes Berserk for DPS, then you're at the point when Mutilation beats the Shred one (to make it a short story :P).

Regarding the nerf, we'll see. I'm a fan of agility stacking :P

Whoa whoa whoa what? Mongoose > berserking for dps?

[Elunedra]

Whoa whoa whoa what? Mongoose > berserking for dps?

yeh it surpsoed me aswel about a week ago. it is whne u get 10K AP raid buffed that 400 extra ap is only a small extra

as for the 200 agi idol i do use it myzelf and i like it it has like a 100% uptime and i still get 15K shreds, the 200 agi gives > 200 AP and it gives crit (but not 5% i think) but it affects all our attacks, including melee / rip / rake / FB

as for tanking if u want pure avoidence the 200 dodge is best but it might be worth it gonig for the 158 agi one becase of the crit gives TPS

<hr>

now as for ArP i am just gonig to cotinu to the softcap of my grim troll (WTB runestone >.<) unless some EJ guys or some ppl here tell me different ^^

[Melonberry]

The new cap is 1400. Go for it. Agi loses its value each time you pass a crit cap as well.

Even if ArP was reduced to 100% (From its current "125%") it would still be the best stat to stack...by a ways.
ArP is currently ~2.74
Agi is currently ~1.84
Assuming a 20% nerf to ArP (Taking it down to 100%).... ~2.19

Since the nerf isn't that high, it'll obviously still be better than agi.

[Phenomenal]

Maybe? If you don't already you're a complete idiot.

So I guess every feral druid that hasn't gotten 25 triumph badges are complete idiots, huh?

Like mentioned already, I've tested and tried it, it's not helping my already passive 58% crit excluding mongoose/greatness procs.
And to top off our other feral druid is using it consistantly and it shows no sign of anything phenomenal worthy to be aiming balls over for.

[Elunedra]

Agi loses its value each time you pass a crit cap as well.

yeh if only i had 70% crit and 4T9 lol

[FeralRage]

The new cap is 1400. Go for it. Agi loses its value each time you pass a crit cap as well.

Even if ArP was reduced to 100% (From its current "125%") it would still be the best stat to stack...by a ways.
ArP is currently ~2.74
Agi is currently ~1.84
Assuming a 20% nerf to ArP (Taking it down to 100%).... ~2.19

Since the nerf isn't that high, it'll obviously still be better than agi.

Thanks for putting some math back into this thread. I guess back to running 10 man Thorim to try to get the runestone trinket.

[Tharkkun]

So I guess every feral druid that hasn't gotten 25 triumph badges are complete idiots, huh?

Like mentioned already, I've tested and tried it, it's not helping my already passive 58% crit excluding mongoose/greatness procs.
And to top off our other feral druid is using it consistantly and it shows no sign of anything phenomenal worthy to be aiming balls over for.

Nothing at this level is going to be whoah hey I'm missing that trinket, my dps is screwed unless you're going from a blue to a purple. Gear level is too close nowadays. But it should be a dps upgrade over the shred idol if your gear meets the requirements for it.

[highslime]

So I guess every feral druid that hasn't gotten 25 triumph badges are complete idiots, huh?

Like mentioned already, I've tested and tried it, it's not helping my already passive 58% crit excluding mongoose/greatness procs.

This.