mechanics question...

[Gilgemesh]

I've read that eventually the weapon damage scaling will make seal of command out scale seal of righteousness even on single targets(upcoming change)... But I cannot find the math on what levels of items, weapon damage, or whatnot that would make this true.
The question is: Does anyone know at which point this will happen? Or is this something that will come with future content?
Also, with the t9 2 pc bonus, I know that it scales very well with crit, would that make some of our higher crit gear better for us, given set bonus even if we lost a little str?

[Nillo]

I think the level is somewhere around being full ToC 25 Heroic equipped.

[Gilgemesh]

Sounds right, I missed out on 255 level weapons tonight too.. /sigh
I've also read, because it scales from projected weapon damage that it also scales better with armor penetration, yet still not at a point where penetration is worth a damn.

[Nillo]

Sounds right, I missed out on 255 level weapons tonight too.. /sigh
I've also read, because it scales from projected weapon damage that it also scales better with armor penetration, yet still not at a point where penetration is worth a damn.

It doesn't scale with ArPen because it uses the weapon damage on your char sheet and not the weapon damage you actually inflict to the target.

Well it doesn't really matter anyway because when you're at that gear level you will rush through content that would justify not taking SoV anyway. (the only place in ToC where I might see myself swapping seals is on Twin Pact.)

[Gilgemesh]

Did some research, and it also seems they're playing with the scaling of seal of command on the ptr, tho I can't find any documentation on it, I did some single target tests and in the same gear I was pulling 10.29% more damage on a single target with seal of command over a 5 minute period. I did the same 5 minute test on live and just did the math from there.


About the armor pen thing... Our seals should scale better with it... I mean don't jam it in our faces if its like putting a spoiler on a 72 beatle. ya sure it has a spoiler... its still only going 50 mph.

[Ronark]

Did some research, and it also seems they're playing with the scaling of seal of command on the ptr, tho I can't find any documentation on it, I did some single target tests and in the same gear I was pulling 10.29% more damage on a single target with seal of command over a 5 minute period. I did the same 5 minute test on live and just did the math from there.


About the armor pen thing... Our seals should scale better with it... I mean don't jam it in our faces if its like putting a spoiler on a 72 beatle. ya sure it has a spoiler... its still only going 50 mph.

Or roll Armor Pen and Spell Pen together and/or make Armor Pen increase your Spell damage dealt by a flat co-efficient.

[Deleted]

In 3 weeks i'll tell you if SoC is better than SoR with 281 dps PvP weapons, untill then, SoR > SoC.

[wannabetroll]

ugh ???

this isnt about mechannics its wow

hurr durr

[Ronark]

ugh ???

this isnt about mechannics its wow

hurr durr

Game mechanics.

[Gilgemesh]

ugh ???

this isnt about mechannics its wow

hurr durr

You know you can spell "I fail" with far fewer keystrokes.

[Eurytos]

Or roll Armor Pen and Spell Pen together and/or make Armor Pen increase your Spell damage dealt by a flat co-efficient.

This seems about right. The main example being there is no longer a difference between spell healing and spell dmg, its all spellpower. It would make sense to just make it Dmg Penetration, rather than separate categories for Spell Pen and Armor Pen.

I have a question about spell pen, a little off topic but bare with me. I know you can currently reach 125% ArP(110% after patch), but is there a Spell Pen cap? Is it even attainable if you desired? Just wondering. Don't worry, its not for my pally, >.>

[Ronark]

This seems about right. The main example being there is no longer a difference between spell healing and spell dmg, its all spellpower. It would make sense to just make it Dmg Penetration, rather than separate categories for Spell Pen and Armor Pen.

I have a question about spell pen, a little off topic but bare with me. I know you can currently reach 125% ArP(110% after patch), but is there a Spell Pen cap? Is it even attainable if you desired? Just wondering. Don't worry, its not for my pally, >.>

The only reason anyone would want Spell Pen is for PvP- In most cases its (almost) the same as Spell Hit, in that it reduces the chance your spells will be resisted.

[Prentice]

The only reason anyone would want Spell Pen is for PvP- In most cases its (almost) the same as Spell Hit, in that it reduces the chance your spells will be resisted.

I do not play a caster for the simple fact that I hate the play style, but are you sure you're right here?? Spells used to be resisted. I thought they were either hit or miss now. And as for Spell Pen, I thought it only affected the amount resisted by your spell attack.

Not sure if that makes any sense. Say you shoot a Frostbolt at someone. Hit rating reduces the attack's chance to miss. Spell Penetration means that the spell will land for 2000 damage as opposed to 1700 damage(300 resisted). Spell Penetration is a pvp stat because several classes have higher resist chances through buffs (ie GotW, pally resist auras, Prayer of Shadow Prot) and the spell penetration reduces the effects of those resistances.

EDIT: In theory, you could have 800 Spell Penetration and still miss. When your spell does hit, it will hit for full damage with no amount resisted.

[Ronark]

I do not play a caster for the simple fact that I hate the play style, but are you sure you're right here?? Spells used to be resisted. I thought they were either hit or miss now. And as for Spell Pen, I thought it only affected the amount resisted by your spell attack.

Not sure if that makes any sense. Say you shoot a Frostbolt at someone. Hit rating reduces the attack's chance to miss. Spell Penetration means that the spell will land for 2000 damage as opposed to 1700 damage(300 resisted). Spell Penetration is a pvp stat because several classes have higher resist chances through buffs (ie GotW, pally resist auras, Prayer of Shadow Prot) and the spell penetration reduces the effects of those resistances.

EDIT: In theory, you could have 800 Spell Penetration and still miss. When your spell does hit, it will hit for full damage with no amount resisted.

The way spells work make Spell Pen and Spell hit similar- They both reduce your chance for the target to resist your spells. Now, I believe you could (with proper amounts of Spell Hit and Pen) reduce the chance for an enemy to resist your spells and be "hit" capped with a low-miss chance.

In theory you could also have 800 Spell Hit and still miss (unless they removed the 1% base chance for all spells to miss, which I think is still implimented). But basically yes, it boils down to [Spell Pen] being a PvP-only stat, acting like an Offensive Resilience, if you will.

[Gilgemesh]

Spell penetration reduces an opponent's resistance to your spells... Its kinda like hit, yes but more like armor penetration in the way it works. It increases the damage a person takes by reducing their base resistance to said spell. I'm not 100% sure if it can reduce their resistance beyond a certain point though. I'll have to read up on it... be ready for a copy and paste post in 20 minutes.

[Gilgemesh]

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15388-i...ll_Penetration

Spell Penetration

Decreases the amount of resistance your target has to your spells. Cannot drop a target below zero resistance.

So... I'm guessing it ONLY works if the person has spell resistance to your element. Cannot go below zero.

[Prentice]

In theory you could also have 800 Spell Hit and still miss (unless they removed the 1% base chance for all spells to miss, which I think is still implimented). But basically yes, it boils down to [Spell Pen] being a PvP-only stat, acting like an Offensive Resilience, if you will.

The 1% unavoidable spell miss chance you are referring to was removed for WotLK.

[gryffin]

just have to point out that spell pen would be useless as a pally cause 99.87% of mobs Do not resist holy damage , hell even players cant resist holy damage.

[Prentice]

If you are not using some kind of scrolling combat text, you may not really notice it if you aren't a combat log scanner. Using Parrot (SCT) shows me exactly how much of my holy damage is resisted per attack and its very surprising.

Many times I have seen several hundred damage being resisted from Consecrates and Exorcism. Over the course of a 5 minute-ish fight, that's a lot of damage lost. I would agree that neither Spell Pen nor Armor Pen are awesome stats for pallys, but it'd be nice if we got something out of them. I am currently sitting at 7.88% armor reduction. If spell pen and armor pen were merged it would be a minor buff but still a buff. I'd love to be able to overcome the target resistance that's hurting my damage.