Priests OOM in raids too fast?

[TwistedPower]

The pony is in beta. We might see it on PTR "soon".

Epic

[harky]

I know it's not a popularly held belief anymore. But I've been sticking with it through all the changes since BC. Stack Spirit. It really does help. If an item doesn't have spirit on it.. It's very hard for me to pick it up. Gems : Spirit, Sp, Spirit/Intel. It honestly works pretty well. Go take a look at my armory. I have some pretty nice gear, true. But that's now. And because the people I raid with know I can hold my own and I'm worth gearing up.

Uh. This isn't a 'popular belief' issue as much as just being silly. Spirit technically offers a throughput advantage over Int, but Int is a superior stat for mana regeneration. If you were going for the best mana regen available, you would gem Int>Spirit>SP. The point is that it's completely not needed. SP>Int>Spirit gemming is superior once you're at a remotely decent gear level (>170'ish average is fine). Holy has 'mana problems' in that you need to use cooldowns. The problem is being compared to things like Disc Priests, Holy Paladins and Resto Druids which are often free to ignore that they have regen cooldowns and wind up finishing fights at 75%+ mana without issue. Gearing for better regen only matters if you routinely go OOM before a fight finishes. If you go OOM as the boss dies then you were geared perfectly for regen. Any excess mana at the end of fights means you were geared too much towards regen. The problem is when you hit 226+ gear you're not going to have the option to sacrifice that much regen for throughput. I have over 1k spirit as Disc... which is annoying (and useless).

[Syce]

holy priests use to be oom like not even a minute into a fight back in bc, when circle of healing didnt have a cooldown. but they would always top the charts.

[TwistedPower]

Uh. This isn't a 'popular belief' issue as much as just being silly. Spirit technically offers a throughput advantage over Int, but Int is a superior stat for mana regeneration. If you were going for the best mana regen available, you would gem Int>Spirit>SP. The point is that it's completely not needed. SP>Int>Spirit gemming is superior once you're at a remotely decent gear level (>170'ish average is fine). Holy has 'mana problems' in that you need to use cooldowns. The problem is being compared to things like Disc Priests, Holy Paladins and Resto Druids which are often free to ignore that they have regen cooldowns and wind up finishing fights at 75%+ mana without issue. Gearing for better regen only matters if you routinely go OOM before a fight finishes. If you go OOM as the boss dies then you were geared perfectly for regen. Any excess mana at the end of fights means you were geared too much towards regen. The problem is when you hit 226+ gear you're not going to have the option to sacrifice that much regen for throughput. I have over 1k spirit as Disc... which is annoying (and useless).

Couldnt have said it better myself. I also find my current spirit as disc usless for raiding.

[Callsign Grunge]

I got a good lol out of this thread

[Aswed]

lolthread is lol

[Selerious]

Uh. This isn't a 'popular belief' issue as much as just being silly. Spirit technically offers a throughput advantage over Int, but Int is a superior stat for mana regeneration. If you were going for the best mana regen available, you would gem Int>Spirit>SP. The point is that it's completely not needed. SP>Int>Spirit gemming is superior once you're at a remotely decent gear level (>170'ish average is fine). Holy has 'mana problems' in that you need to use cooldowns. The problem is being compared to things like Disc Priests, Holy Paladins and Resto Druids which are often free to ignore that they have regen cooldowns and wind up finishing fights at 75%+ mana without issue. Gearing for better regen only matters if you routinely go OOM before a fight finishes. If you go OOM as the boss dies then you were geared perfectly for regen. Any excess mana at the end of fights means you were geared too much towards regen. The problem is when you hit 226+ gear you're not going to have the option to sacrifice that much regen for throughput. I have over 1k spirit as Disc... which is annoying (and useless).

Couldnt have said it better myself. I also find my current spirit as disc usless for raiding.

Did you miss the part at the start of my post where I said "Holy"?

Raid buffed and depending on my flask I sit at 3.1-3.3k+ sp, 25k+ mana, 800-1000+ Mp5 while casting. As a Holy priest, Spirit gives you SP and MP5. In "my opinion" it's a more worth while stat to stack than Intel or Sp. The only times I've ever had mana issues is on some Hard mode encounters. And since other than trinkets there are no caster items I know of that Don't have intel that have spirit as a stat, and since Spirit actually through meditation (which all Disc priests take) grants you casting MP5. I don't think even for disc it is a worthless stat. Though not nearly as important.

Try dropping Meditation, and see if that 1k Spirit you have is a waste.

[TwistedPower]

Once you hit a certain amount you dont need anymore. I'd much rather drop my spirit back down to 800 and get 200 more intelect. So 1k spirit is a waste if all you need is 800. Obviously you missed that point in the post. Not to mention if you read what the poster I quoted wrote he was talking about wanting to subsituting some it for throughput (spellpower) insted of regen on specs that already were fine with regen.

Infact if I could drop all 1k spirit and get 1k more intelect I would becuase its better for me. It is a waste. 1k intelect gives more regen in a 25man raid and crit then 1k spirit. It is vastly better for my disc spec.

[harky]

Did you miss the part at the start of my post where I said "Holy"?

Did you miss the point where I said spirit provided throughput? It only does that for Holy. Please bust out your glasses and reread: I was talking about Holy.

Raid buffed and depending on my flask I sit at 3.1-3.3k+ sp, 25k+ mana, 800-1000+ Mp5 while casting. As a Holy priest, Spirit gives you SP and MP5. In "my opinion" it's a more worth while stat to stack than Intel or Sp. The only times I've ever had mana issues is on some Hard mode encounters. And since other than trinkets there are no caster items I know of that Don't have intel that have spirit as a stat, and since Spirit actually through meditation (which all Disc priests take) grants you casting MP5. I don't think even for disc it is a worthless stat. Though not nearly as important.

Try dropping Meditation, and see if that 1k Spirit you have is a waste.

Trade me 1k Int for my 1k Spi and I'll take the trade, drop meditation and never look back. Meditation is taken because it's free regen based on a stat we have in surplus. Having some Spirit helps, having 1k is a waste. My regen was fine with 600 in Naxx, now I have trouble going OOM and wish I had more throughput, but the best option I have for throughput is also heavily geared towards regen. Now back to Holy... you might want to actually run those numbers. 1 Int and 1 SP gem gives you more regen and more SP than 2 Spi gems would. 1 Spi gem = 4.344 mp/5 and 3 SP, so 2x is 8.688 mp/5 and 6 SP. 1 int gem = 9.5 mp/5 and .07% crit, while a SP gem gives 23 SP. So... do you want 8.688 mp/5 and 6 SP, or 9.5 mp/5, .07% crit and 23 SP? Completely silly. That's how wonderful Spirit is now. See also: it's not.

[sponske]

As priest you got a lot of possibilities atm.

Mana problems?
1 use you're shadowfiend more early so you can use it 2 times on a fight
2 the other healers suck
3 the dps sucks fight is taking too long to be human
4 you don't got any replenishment / wisdom / shaman totems

Personally i play in a 10m raiding guild and it happens we don't got any replenishment wel it makes mana problems occur sometimes not often but it happens.

For that reason i changed my gear a bit and stackes spirit and crit more to counter this issue.
The idea is trigger holy concentration more and i must say it helped a lot even without replenishment i don't go oom anymore .

Personally i don't like the intel stacking atm, i know it's better for mana regen with replenishment etc but i still like the idea a lot more that priests are spirit based it is possible but you need to get some crit then.


And about those peeps who think discipline isn't good think again and don't look at recount for healing done.
Upload you're combatlog to http://www.worldoflogs.com/ and you'll see the total of healing + absorbs from shields. Then again rather a healer that keeps a person alive then someone who heals everybody for 0,5k and tops them off and being high on healing done list it's not a race where you can see the person is good or bad.
If you whipe by lack of healing it could be something to look at ofc

[funkyfloyd]

can i pick your collective brains?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...=Funkey&gn=WoD

assuming that shows up with my healing set on.
my dual spec is disc. now a couple things to understand:

-im the third healer in toc/ulduar only when needed.
-healing is not my priority, dps is.
-healing gear is not my priority, my RL knows and understands this.
-most of my healing gear is hand-me-downs from the dps set with diff enchants and gems.
-im not terribly interested in going out and getting healing specific gear. dps is what i do, and im much much better at dps than i am at healing, again the RL knows and understands this, he works with it and uses me as heals only on fights that need a third healer.
-he does not expect me to out heal our 'real' healers, im backup only, usually on MT.
-i dont pug, i dont pvp, i raid with a very select guild group that work well together, we work well as a team in the gear i have.

however...i could use some tweaking. i go oom a lot.
i could certainly use some pointers on enchants/gems. please work with the gear i have, not what i need. take a peek at the spec too, while you are at it. ive been assuming some talents (like spirit tap, ive since found it doesnt) worked for heals, the disc spec was really just thrown together when i got the dual.

our other two 'real' heals are shammy and holy priest. the RL -and MT-wanted disc as well so there i am.

[Fenixdown]

Hey, im not a Priest myself, but I have noticed that in PvE Holy Priest are so imba, but a few mins into the fight then there oom, after that there just scraping any healing they can get from mana CD's, inervates, mana tides and self mana regen. I dont really notice this with any other class, just wondering if this is normal for holy priests (not sure about Disc because there rubbish in PvE imo), anyone else got this problem or any tips to get around it?

Thanks a bunch

Simply put.

Your holy priests are terrible.

Your convictions of discipline's usefulness in PvE environments is worse than your holy priests' playstyles.

Thank you and good night.

P.S.: Yes, I am discipline, no I NEVER have mana issues, and I want to see you tell my main tank how useless I am when I'm preventing about 400k damage on him. Depending on the length of the fight and a little RNG, perhaps far greater totals. Each shield fully raid buffed is about 5800 damage, and my crits for Aegis procs are about 1800 each (without, mind you, the T9 4-piece, which I am close to). Factor in Pain Suppression when needed on top of that. Now that you've been educated, let's try that again.

[masterprtzl]

Yea but they arnt the best class for raid healing or MT healing, they only give the buff, imo the healing loss just for that buff isnt worth it when you can use another class who heals more effectivley.

obvious troll is obvious

they can raid heal, main tank heal, they can do anything


get the recount addon that calculates absorbs into healing done- then you can call disc priests bad

Koralon, priest just bubbles everyone up GG no raid dmg

[xile]

Two things adressed here are the problem with priest going OOM, which yes is actually a very prominent problem, and disc priest.

Disc priest are broken for PvE. They are designed to mitigate damage more particularly on tanks. But let's face it, i can't think of a normal mode fight that requires more than one tank healer (cept maybe certain parts of certain fights). And if so even if you have two, pallys are MUCH better tank healers than disc priest. So yes, disc priest can be used as a tank healer, but any competent guild i would imagine would choose a pally over the disc priest assuming gear was decent still. The disc tree is broken because it is actually more effective to bubble all 25 people in the raid than actually heal a tank. Which completely goes against the original design of disc priest in pve. So... hence the broken. They really lack a spot in pve argue if you wish, but a pally is always a better tank healer, and bubbling 25 people (however effective it is on some fights, and yes it can be very effective) goes against the original design for the class, so it may be effective but it is still a broken class.

And there is a problem with priest currently, yes it is extremely easy to go oom, and yes any priest whos have way decent can not go oom just by not being an idiot. But lately i've noticed that priest lack in competition with shammys and obviously druids. I can keep up with shammys usually even though in my guild i outgear all of them sadly. The only way i am EVER able to heal more though is by stacking spellpower and sayign screw it to my int trinkets sadly enough. in holy i can get up to 27k mana or so when i'm jus normally healing, but for me to top meters i have to shove on a flask, put on my spellpower trinket, have 2 resto shammys in my group so i can last the whole ToC fight at my retardedly high 3.5k spellpower, raid buffed with flask. I don't think we can compete as well as we once did unfortunately, but it's still doable, if a priest is trying to top meters hes going to go oom, we don't have that kind of survivability now that Chain heal got buffed andPoH got nerfed unfortuantely, but it's still very easy to not go oom

Pretty much, don't try to top healing and your fine.

[Slacky91]

If a priest goes oom he either specced somthing wrong, like full holy :P or gemmed/geared wrong.

[Lleonn]

i play a holy priest in pve, and im always at around 50-70% mana at the end of the fight, rarely im oom.i use fiend at 40-50% of mana and the hymn at 30-40% or 70-80% when the fiend was allready used.

armory link:http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ether&n=Lleonn

[civetta]

spirit = win as holy end of story

selerious rox my sox

whats a mana pot ?

shamans FTW

[Worshaka]

Hey, im not a Priest myself, but I have noticed that in PvE Holy Priest are so imba, but a few mins into the fight then there oom, after that there just scraping any healing they can get from mana CD's, inervates, mana tides and self mana regen. I dont really notice this with any other class, just wondering if this is normal for holy priests (not sure about Disc because there rubbish in PvE imo), anyone else got this problem or any tips to get around it?

Thanks a bunch

Holy regen is perhaps more gear contingent than most healing classes. If you're in entry level gear you can't really afford to indescriminately heal as you feel like it.

However once you gear properly and begin using the right spells at the right time you can manage your mana just fine.

IMO the holy priest is perhaps the most grey of the healing classes, what talents and gear you choose are highly interpretational. Your healing style is again very interpretational and personally I think a lot of priests get those aspects of their class very wrong. To cite an example, striving for a 37% crit rate at the expense of all other stats is a classice example or poor gear strategy. However it occurs quite a bit and those sorts of individuals will struggle, particularly with heroic or hard mode content.

So i'd say in this case that it's because the Holy Priest you are refering to is in entry level gear or they aren't employing the correct gear/spec/spell selection strategies.

[Chancer93]

As a Holy Priest I found I rarely go OOM unless the other healers need to be babysitted.
I just start off the fight using Inner Focus then when I get to 60% mana I use Shadowfiend. He usually gets my mana all the way back up, then at 50% I use Hymn of Hope as well as using Inner Focus every 2 minutes when its CD is over. If I drop to 4k mana I use a Runic Mana Potion getting me 8-10k mana total and by the time I go OOM another Inner Focus and Shadowfiend is up or the fight has ended.

[execc]

Priest and oom should not be used in the same sentence.

Shadow: Dispersion, Shadowfiend, Replenishment, Inner Focus, Hymn of Hope, (Arcane Torrent, Pot)