HotR changes?

[SolSphere]

I haven't paid THAT much attention to the patch notes recently, but I just noticed today the changes to HotR.

My question about it is for people who have been on the PTR.

How has this affected the ability?

Damage wise.

And if anyone here has tested it..threat wise.

[FurioRing]

Hammer of the Righteous: The damage from this ability is now considered physical instead of Holy. The threat generated by the ability has been increased such that it will continue to do approximately the same threat it did when it was Holy damage.

For those that can't seem to figure what the OP is commenting on.

Personally, I have not been on the PTR. But the ramifications of this are deep. They are pushing paladins into a physical threat school rather than finding a better solution. Now, rather than relying on a 13% increase in holy damage from a caster debuff, we will be relying on a blended set of debuffs and Sunders will actually be important to paladin tanks for the first time EVER.

I can only think that this is a PVP nerf that is going to be hard hitting in PVE.

[Sulika]

For those that can't seem to figure what the OP is commenting on.

Personally, I have not been on the PTR. But the ramifications of this are deep. They are pushing paladins into a physical threat school rather than finding a better solution. Now, rather than relying on a 13% increase in holy damage from a caster debuff, we will be relying on a blended set of debuffs and Sunders will actually be important to paladin tanks for the first time EVER.

I can only think that this is a PVP nerf that is going to be hard hitting in PVE.

Presumably in PvP it will be a nerf vs Plate wearers and a buff vs Cloth Wearers.

[Tullkas]

in Arenas, protection speced and pvp dps geared paladins were not doing more damage then Rets so I dont see why blizzard did this.

Guys on official forums had tested this on ptr and compared with live version. Check it here http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...20523725&sid=1.

The impact is significant.

[Ronark]

Presumably in PvP it will be a nerf vs Plate wearers and a buff vs Cloth Wearers.

Its an overall nerf to both, as Holy damage ignores 100% armor in each case.

[aerwah]

I am guessing its because of those odd protribution paladins popped out of nowhere in 3.2.2 and managed to do more dps(?) than a ret paladin in a raid situation

[Ronark]

The thing is, while we don't do more damage, we have a lot more damage reduction, health, and self-healing (Judgement of light alone is 800 per proc if you've got 40K HP, which is quite possible). I'm really not sure about this at all. It feels like a PvP nerf, but it'll affect both PvP and PvE.

Every class and mob has armor. That's a fact. Hmm, actually, i'm not sure if elementals have armor or not, but i imagine so.
With it being physical, this means that we'll now lose a lot of damage on every single target. Against another tank, who's got 60% damage reduction from armor, we're basically getting shafted down to 900 (+/- 10%) or so damage. Against clothies, who might have 20% or so (note that it scales a lot more per point at lower values), we're still losing 20% damage on what we have now.

Basically;
Against a Clothie, our crits will be 80% above our current normal hits.
Against a Leather user, our crits will be 70% above our current normal hits.
Against a Mail user, our crits will be 60% above our current normal hits.
Against a Plate user, our crits will be 50% above our current normal hits.
Against a tank, our crits will be 40% above our current normal hits.

And that's before damage reduction talents, which already affect it.

I'm not sure WTF Blizzard are thinking, and i'd like to see some sort of explanation for the change.

It's really not about the threat, because as stated, that's been buffed. It's about the damage, and whether it's gonna become the new Seal of Justice, in that it's barely used because it's so random (with the amount of damage it does).

They (the Elementals) typically have no armor, unless it is a Rock/Stone Elemental.

[Ascal]

NOOOOOOO! MY BEATIFUL PROT DPS EMPIRE!!! RUINED!!! WHYYYYY OH WHYYYY /cry /emo /hidesincorner


srsly though.... too bad. loved prot in battlegrounds.

[Tsær]

I am guessing its because of those odd protribution paladins popped out of nowhere in 3.2.2 and managed to do more dps(?) than a ret paladin in a raid situation

I dont think this is the case, as protribution requires heals in order to maintain the highest dps cycle. This is a pvp nerf affecting pve in my opinion.

[Ronark]

I dont think this is the case, as protribution requires heals in order to maintain the highest dps cycle. This is a pvp nerf affecting pve in my opinion.

Pretty much.

[SolSphere]

Okay so i got a response on the damage. But what about threat. If it is in that link to World of Warcraft, I am unable to view it at the moment. Would it be possible to get a C&P?

Also some wishful thinking. Avenger's shield styled gylph for HotR =(

[Ronark]

Okay so i got a response on the damage. But what about threat. If it is in that link to World of Warcraft, I am unable to view it at the moment. Would it be possible to get a C&P?

Also some wishful thinking. Avenger's shield styled gylph for HotR =(

Lower damage (that is not Holy) suggests it will have lower TPS.

[Ascal]

Lower damage (that is not Holy) suggests it will have lower TPS.

they buffed the threat on HotR accordingly. i don't have numbers right now but apparently, it's not too bad for pve protpallies

[Copain]

they buffed the threat on HotR accordingly. i don\'t have numbers right now but apparently, it\'s not too bad for pve protpallies

Not exactly. Because it\'s physical, it will (most likely) take damage reductions from armor and the like. Since bosses still have armor (Unless I missed something) then it will do less damage, and thus less threat.

[Ascal]

Not exactly. Because it\'s physical, it will (most likely) take damage reductions from armor and the like. Since bosses still have armor (Unless I missed something) then it will do less damage, and thus less threat.

i think i'm missing something here.


they nerfed HotR: now does physical damage so because it's now affected by boss armor it also does less damage and thus causes less threat.

they buffed HotR threat so HotR would cause the same amount of threat with less damage.


so. what's the problem?

[Copain]

i think i\'m missing something here.


they nerfed HotR: now does physical damage so because it\'s now affected by boss armor it also does less damage and thus causes less threat.

they buffed HotR threat so HotR would cause the same amount of threat with less damage.


so. what\'s the problem?

Threat is not a set number. Using my HotR will not always deal the same threat. Threat is based on damage. So less damage = Less threat.

Unless they changed it to be a baseline always deal the same amount of threat ability, but I do not believe that is going to happen.

[Ascal]

Threat is not a set number. Using my HotR will not always deal the same threat. Threat is based on damage. So less damage = Less threat.

yes. i know that. let my use an example(fictional numbers):

3.2:
your HotR hits for 100 and causes 100 threat

3.2.2(with buffed threat values but still holy damage.)

your HotR hits for 100 and causes 200 threat

3.2.2(with buffed threat values but nerfed(physical) damage)

your Hotr hits for 50 and causes 100 threat.




So HotR would cause the same amount of threat in 3.2 and 3.2.2 while doing less damage in 3.2.2

That's my understanding of the patchnotes. I hope i didn't fuck something up and got it all wrong.

[Offhand]

In all probability, with the other "PvP nerfs", it will hit PvE threat as well.

[Copain]

yes. i know that. let my use an example(fictional numbers):

3.2:
your HotR hits for 100 and causes 100 threat

3.2.2(with buffed threat values but still holy damage.)

your HotR hits for 100 and causes 200 threat

3.2.2(with buffed threat values but nerfed(physical) damage)

your Hotr hits for 50 and causes 100 threat.




So HotR would cause the same amount of threat in 3.2 and 3.2.2 while doing less damage in 3.2.2

That\'s my understanding of the patchnotes. I hope i didn\'t fuck something up and got it all wrong.

Lets say for every 2 holy damage I got one threat point.
And for every 1 Physical Damage I got one threat point.

If holy damage wise it hit for 100 and I got 50 Threat, and with Physical wise it hit for 50 and I got 50 Threat, that would be fine.

The problem being different bosses/mobs have different armor and resistances, where as Holy had a lot less battles where it was being resisted (IE there are not many Holy resist auras).

So Holy wise I could almost always hit for 100 and get 50 threat. But with it being Physical, my damage jumps all over, meaning I could hit for 23 and get 23 threat thanks to armor.

[LavaDuck]

I dont think this is the case, as protribution requires heals in order to maintain the highest dps cycle. This is a pvp nerf affecting pve in my opinion.

Not the first time, and it won't certainly be the last time.
But... You get what you pay for.


Gameplay is subject to change