3.2 patch - is that making your guildies leave?

[Demonnk]

We are not some super-hardcore raiding guild but we managed quite well in Ul25 downing Yogg quite early and having few HMs done.

ToC is quite a disappointment for me and my guildies. We clean Toc 25 normal in about 1.5 h on Wednesday, Toc hard is beyond us at the moment sadly for the lack of dps – the step up in difficulty is just too big for the Beast and still, the instance itself is a joke in fact, 5 boring bosses and no lore, no environment change – the same barren landscape of Colliseum

Ulduar is like heaven compared to Toc because of its diversity.

Several of very active players (like 10-15% of guild roster) left because there is just nothing to do these days, they logged in around 18.00 and left 20.00 bored like hell…

I am wondering whether you have the same experience in your guilds and whether you see that attrition is increasing.

I don’t flame or blame anyone, I just see that Blizzard decided on a marketing strategy which is just not appealing to me.

[Jinz]

We had probably...2 people take a break until Cat. Other than them, our core raiders are still holding up strong. ToC25 HM is actually challenging so it keeps us on our feet, and nothing like doing uld hardmodes with easy xD

[Lordender]

I think its because ToC is just so limiting in how long you can raid it for and a lot of guilds either fail or don't have the manpower to try hardmode ToC. These guilds are now forced to go back to Ulduar with the rest of their raid nights and people have been bored of seeing the same fights since april and getting lower quality loot compared to faceroll normal mode ToC.

People go where the loot is and unfortunately for lots of people its ToC25 or bust from what i've seen. Guilds on my server have lost more members in this time period than I can remember.

[Demonnk]

in TBC we did fairly good, farming BT and MT in the later stages, before mass-nerfs in the end, so players do have some decent skills.

Its not that we are complaining about not being able to kill the Beasts and we dont scream for nerf

its only that once we manage to kill them, then we will just shrug our shoulders and not be happy, since Toc raiding is so repetetive.. I really dont enjoy signing up for raids anymore and I can understand other guildies who left because of the same reason.

+ One boss in there Champions is just plainly stupid - big chaos and randomness on normal, so I imagine what it means on hero.
I am fairly positve that we will be able not keep our guild's integrity for the next 6-7 months before 3.3 with that little to do now.. Imagine... 6-7 months of the same 5 bosses in TOC in 2 variants..Nightmare

[Mandible]

Have a few stopping due to rl, but noone quitting (officially) due to stuff being hard - we do have plenty who for some reason or another just stay off without leaving notice though which can be quite annoying

- and yes, toc heroic is a nice change of pace to the old wipe times since its do or die instead of "choosing" to do hard modes.

[Ninsanba]

My guild broke apart due to failure to finish ToC, I joined a new guild which apparently deals with ToC being short by turning very laid-back and doing a lot of ten-mans.

[Maneken]

Beasts are very chalenging on 25 man hc, thnk they are maybe too chalenging in comparison with lord J and Faction fights.

[Benjamima]

4 of my guildies have thought of quitting since 3.2

[Nest]

2 of my IRL friends did quit couple days ago, Aion ftw. :-*
Nothing to do in WoW than wait for Cataclysm, and hopely better times.

[elderamy]

We are not some super-hardcore raiding guild but we managed quite well in Ul25 downing Yogg quite early and having few HMs done.

ToC is quite a disappointment for me and my guildies. We clean Toc 25 normal in about 1.5 h on Wednesday, Toc hard is beyond us at the moment sadly for the lack of dps – the step up in difficulty is just too big for the Beast and still, the instance itself is a joke in fact, 5 boring bosses and no lore, no environment change – the same barren landscape of Colliseum

Ulduar is like heaven compared to Toc because of its diversity.

Several of very active players (like 10-15% of guild roster) left because there is just nothing to do these days, they logged in around 18.00 and left 20.00 bored like hell…

I am wondering whether you have the same experience in your guilds and whether you see that attrition is increasing.

I don’t flame or blame anyone, I just see that Blizzard decided on a marketing strategy which is just not appealing to me.

From my PoV this is due to the hard work this instances take. What would you prefer:

a decent totc and a decent icecrown
a bad totc and an great icecrown
no totc and a decent icecrown

[zukai]

at least u can do yogg and toc normal- my guild lost ALL of the raiders, so we havent killed yogg and the group that we've built back up hasnt gotten past jormugars

[Goatonlb]

I'm going to have to agree with det a lot on this one. People just need to suck it up and keep trying. Even if you find beasts hard, it's nothing like wiping used to be.

This is both good and bad. It's good because you wipe a few times, not countless, but the chance for progression is much higher. It's bad for a couple of reasons. Firstly, if you can clear normal mode, the push for hardmode just isn't there. Before - killing a boss meant moving on to something new and exciting, now it means you get to do the same boss you already killed in normal, but with like 3/4 of your gear on...it's just not as satisfactory to the raider.

This attitude also promotes quick frustration. I bet everyone here's been in a vault that might have failed at Kolo on the first attempt and 5 people left. wtf? Apparently they never tried some of the more challenging fights of old (or ones that are still there), or just think too highly of themselves.

The third reason? Been there, done that. The game has changed so much since the inital days of raiding, it's completely different. For the obvious reasons of 40-25man's, 2 new classes for both factions, normal/hardmode setup etc, and for the more subtle reasons - raiders are more knowledgeble, they expect more, and are generally better players that they used to be. I'm not saying there aren't the same % of totally clueless people out there, because lord knows, I see them all the time - but information sharing and the general expectancy level of add-on usage has gone up exponentially since the days of MC - making raiding easier.

IMO it's only going to get worse. Cata will come out and everyone will be happy. Then they'll be 85 for a while and in the same boat they are now (with whatever they're unhappy about), and realize it quicker than before. And quicker, and quicker. Some serious changes would have to be made to keep a higher interest in the raiding scene imo. The normal/hardmode setup was a great idea to get more players into the raids, but it killed the satisfaction, which killed the desire, which kills the # of people who raid etc. etc.

[nazzar]

Some actually came back (Yay!) But yes Colosseum has been disappointment after disappointment. My guild always has been for me: do 25 man as good as we can(Progressing on Hard modes) (Active 25 man raid schedule) and then 10 man after/before/around the 25 scheduled raids, and in those 10 man raids its where the real "Fun" is in. (playing with 9 guys you LIKE is just plain win on Friday night for example)

However this Colosseum thing is just messed up

First fight you need 2 severely good tanks, then the fight after its mostly kick all the melee and keep 1 rogue and invite casters. Then the fight after invite the CC cavelery(Ranged). Boss after get those melee back since you need nuke for the shields and then its Anub where you NEED a heroism otherwise go home. And we don't have a good/active shaman. You gotta love the blizzard "take the player not the class"

And yes that for Hardmodes btw. Normal mode is just a plain snooze fest.

I just hate it that I can't play with 9 guys I like. But I have to play with "guys I like to play 25 man with but prefer to go with others" just because there class is what we need.

Yes we did most of the hard modes now with really messed up set ups (Try Lord Jaraxxus with 7 melee ..... ) But I just don't like it that I have to replace people in my friend raid just to be able to beat bosses.

[HammondQ]

Its really the Promise of the Wonders contained in Icecrown citadel that keeps my guild going…..the current raid tier is rather blah.

[Goatonlb]

Wait, wait, wait..I remember that name and avatar. Weren't you putting AION down in every single threat?

lol, like 500+ posts on this alone

[smrtolet]

We are not some super-hardcore raiding guild but we managed quite well in Ul25 downing Yogg quite early and having few HMs done.

ToC is quite a disappointment for me and my guildies. We clean Toc 25 normal in about 1.5 h on Wednesday, Toc hard is beyond us at the moment sadly for the lack of dps – the step up in difficulty is just too big for the Beast and still, the instance itself is a joke in fact, 5 boring bosses and no lore, no environment change – the same barren landscape of Colliseum

Ulduar is like heaven compared to Toc because of its diversity.

Several of very active players (like 10-15% of guild roster) left because there is just nothing to do these days, they logged in around 18.00 and left 20.00 bored like hell…

I am wondering whether you have the same experience in your guilds and whether you see that attrition is increasing.

I don’t flame or blame anyone, I just see that Blizzard decided on a marketing strategy which is just not appealing to me.

I took a break at the begining of ulduar, came back for ToTC and quit 3 days later again. Just not worth it IMO. The good old days of vanilla are gone, everything is oversimplified now. Plus most of my friends from vanilla quit over the course of TBC so there was no joy in playing with strangers as well. IMO, the game has turned away from the style and concept of what it was before, and what got it to where it was in its glory days of BWL, AQ and Naxx. Everything later was just a steady decline into an idiots game, just to appeal to the wide fan base. So now you have every class that can AOE, put out a same amount of DPS (not at one time, but constant nerfs and buffs have put each class on top at some point or the other), every class now has a DoT, every healer class a HoT, every profession the exactly same buff and so on. I distinctly remember from the WoW booklet that "a mage can do most damage, and only a rouge can APPROACH the level of a mage". And now they have made everything, even hybrids, the same.

My guild fell apart a few weeks ago, they dispersed into other top guilds, only to have them be gone one at a time.

[Zka]

I cancelled 2 weeks ago for sure. And one of the reasons were ToC being piss poor.

[Gron]

While you might find my posts flaming Blizzard for their new raiding strategy (bad players should get free epics on normal modes), I do have to say, I am enjoying the hardmodes.

This is a challenge for us, and I am for once happy we are not oneshotting bosses.

If I'd need to criticize Blizzard for TOC, it would be to say that likely you can throw out most of your Ulduar gear, maybe also replace some of the Ulduar hardmode gear if you want to proceed.

While there is no lore, no graphics added to the raid, I enjoy Faction Champions and AnubArak fights - looking forward to see how 25 man hardmodes look with them.

10 man hardmodes are easier than 25 man, and I suggest you get your feet wet there first.

[blondie]

I have never done any of the Coliseum raids, not even on normal, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Even if you start trying hard mode, and get somewhat into it. Maybe you almost have gotten beasts down or something. It's still the same instance, right? Just a little bit harder, or is it a relatively new tactic for the Hard Mode bosses?

And even if the tactic is new, you still wont get away from the fact that the scenery is the same, until you face anub'arak.

As I said, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Angry]

From my PoV totgc 25man hard, has been the most challenging so far. We spent 1 week, wiping on Northrend Beasts, the next week, we went straight in and 1shotted it. Took a few wipes on Lord Jaraxxus and he went down aswell.

Monday we downed Faction Champions, they were kinda a wall, just needed to sort the Kill Order, we found it way easier, killing dps first.
And we downed Twin Val'kyr yesterday, we would probably have killed them the first night, but we had to call it due raid end and people needing silly IRL stuff, called work!

The next wall is Anub'arak, and a huge wall!

But the difficulty in TotGC 25man hard, hmmm I will tell you if we 1shot Northrend Beasts again tonight.


@Blondie: It's not just a little bit harder, it's alot harder, TotGC 25man normal was just like walking in the park.
You have to change the tactics around a tiny bit, like having an extra tank on Northrend Beasts etc. But the mechanics are still the same, just more lethal!

edit: just saw Blondie's post, and wanted to reply