What are we doing wrong with heroic ToC 25 man?

[Ultralisk]

Every thread needs a troll. Why not claim heroic TotC needs close to no skill up to Anub, basically making the point that exactly 6 guilds in the world have the skill?

You know, I really have to hand it to Blizzard. Up until now, there was no way in this game to demonstrate 'skill'. Now at least SOME achievement (the skill in choosing 24 fellow players who are really really good, while being good yourself) warrants the label 'skill'. I didn't think it was possible to make any wannabe-hardcore player admit that anyone but themselves was actually skilled. GG Bliz.

[Nr]

if you can down Beasts, you should be able to down (...) Faction Champs.

FC25hc is pretty random survivability check (and also totally against "bring the player" rule, as DKs, Rogues and Frost Mages are insanely useful compared to - for example - Paladins, Warriors except Protection and Hunters), I don't know anyone who seen it and says "we can down it in any possible setup for 100%".

NB25hc is pretty easy if you melee DPS doesn't constantly fail by getting poison/fire debuffs on 15 people and then hugging each other (one-shotting Rogues with fire debuff is teh lolz) and healers aren't terribad. I mean, I seen Holydins trying to cover double Impale with Flash of Light HoTs, good luck with that.

[Polarthief]

That or your healers are not keeping him topped off. Let them know the impale doesn't go away. If you tanks cant right click bop either you can be assured they are holding you back.

Tell the tanks to make a macro... You have OVER 50 buttons for key binds you know...

/cancelaura Hand of Protection


^ bam.

[Gobber]

Regarding tank damage on beasts, gormak is obviously huge on tank damage, but there should be very little damage otherwise, assign all healers except 1 to the tanks, and that other 1 to just top up the raid.

Worms is not as bad on the tanks, they will still need big heals, they danger part is after the first burrow the acidmaw tank will get paralysed for a few seconds, thats when you need a tank cooldown etc, and the first fire debuff person to free that tank asap.

You should be using 3 tanks for this fight, and a tip is to have 2 tanks on dreadscale. When one tank gets the fire debuff, the other taunts. So you then have a tank with the fire debuff free to run and free people with the poison.

If you reach icehowl with over 20 people alive (at least one being a tank) it should be a kill. You need to make sure that when he crashes into the wall that your tank MOVES AWAY from icehowl for when he recovers, we found having the tank stand right next to icehowl often gets themself instagibbed.

If you can do beasts, then you can do jarraxxus. Wouldn't say the same for fac champs, its a completely different fight focused way more on control than damage/tanking/healing.

[klaps_05]

To the OP -

Write down how exactly your fight goes - the tank pulls, then at X ability Y person dies, then at phase 2 someone fails at Z. Make it a bit clearer so we know with what we can help you.

And like someone compared how ulduar is predictable - yes it is, however TOC is not(not all of it) so you don't just need heals that can act on their own, you need tanks and dps to do that aswell.

[serif]

we have heroic Ulduar down to everything minus 1 light in the darkness and firefighter. However when it comes to heroic ToC, we dont even stand a fighting chance

well to be fair, you ARE doing t8 content with t9 gear... so ulduar will indeed seem a bit easier. unless you're saying you did all of the ulduar hardmodes pre3.2. in that case... grats?

just wait until 3.3 drops, gear up with t10 and come back and pwn toc25 hardmodes like you did with ulduar.

[rollo90000]

we use 3 tanks on beasts

and rotate cd tank on dreadscale in phase 2. ( once acidmaw is dead)

We have cleared ulduar heroic ( about 1 week back )

we are at anub heroic in 25man ( god help the world lol)

impale needs removing with bop once phase 2 starts

[Tanyn]

We tend to use a ranged tank on the stationary Jormungar. Keeps us down to
2 tanks and gives us more dps in phase1 and phase2. Have the 2 "regular" tanks
switch off when they get the Burning Bile to free up the people with Paralytic
Poison. As long as people are spread out, do not get in front of the worms or
stand in melee range when they re-emerge it should be fine. I would also advise
using Heroism/Bloodlust soon as dps gets on Acidmaw.

[Daedelus]

And so, minus Yogg+0 and Algalon which are afaik the only 2 fights that require some skill right ?

Algalon25 doesn't require any great skill, just dps, and people not to kill themselves. Firefighter25 is harder than Algalon25

Back on topic - spam heal your tanks right at the start of the worm phase.

[Deleted]

If you are using 3 tanks on Gormok, they should never be in danger of dying because of RNG. If they are dying, it's almost certainly because of poor cooldown management. One thing all tanks doing this fight should know, is that a 12 second cooldown used just before an impale will cover 2 impales total. The fight should look something like this:

Impales 1-6 Shouldn't be very dangerous as the buff stack isn't high yet.
Impales 7-8 Tank1 Shield-wall (or equivalent)
Impales 9-10 Tank2 Shield-wall
Impales 11-12 Tank3 Shield-wall
Impales 13-14 Tank1 secondary cooldown + raid cooldown (Hand of Sacrifice, Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit etc.)
If he's not dead by this time, you're probably wiping because the worms have activated.

So you only really need one decent raid cooldown to not be in huge danger of dying on this encounter as a tank. Taking an Impale with just Last Stand should never be necessary with a 3 tank strategy.

Using a 2 tank strategy makes the impales a bit trickier to handle, but with enough raid cooldowns it's doable with any tanking classes.

[Aluana]

my guild has just started on this (slow i know, but the guild is only a month old and we've only had numbers to really do 25mans for 2 weeks now) and we're not having any issues with P1 aside from people disconnecting and having only 23 people online to run in our first lot of attempts (we just wanted to get people used to the fight and actually didnt plan on doing as well as we did)...

being on an oceanic realm, the issues are always going to be there but we still managed to get gormok down before the worms come out on 5/7 attempts last night and actually had acidmaw down at one stage as well with a hunter ranged tanking after the assigned tank died...

after reading through some of the suggestions made i'm a lot more enlightened and i'll take them back to my guild and we'll work through it hopefully with a full compliment of 25 next week without any disconnections and with 4 of our top 10 dps back with renewed internet connections

thanks!!!!

[Destriel]

Yay for another old thread being ressurected ...

[Aluana]

you only just noticed that?