Shadow Priest Buff 3.2.2

[icelezz]

Wow blizz are smart hmm what to do with the dps class doing the least dmg hmm i know give them extra 30-50 sp that will fix it 4 sure. Hint* it doesnt do jack

[fabian]

Already discussed, already been said they know it won't do much. Stop your bitching, at least they acknowledged it.

[noxxous]

more like 1-200 SP

[Pheonixis]

It's been said over and over, and yes, epeens apparently are important.

[Weena]

Wow blizz are smart hmm what to do with the dps class doing the least dmg hmm i know give them extra 30-50 sp that will fix it 4 sure. Hint* it doesnt do jack

you just realised this?

[Toysuprapr]

Already discussed, already been said they know it won't do much. Stop your bitching, at least they acknowledged it.

Blizzard acknowledged that the buff they gave us blows? Show me where, i wanna see this with my own eyes.

[luthi]

more like 1-200 SP

For the buff to be equal to "1-200 SP" you would need to have 1000-2000 spirit.

If you have that much spirit, you're doing something either horribly wrong, or horribly right.

[greysin]

more like 1-200 SP

around 40, give or take.

spriests still scale like shit with haste, still don't see dps improvements with 226+ gear and are still further and further behind the other dps classes

we still do 25% of the raid healing a paladin does, still proc the same replinishment that other classes can and still suffer more than anyone from any interruption in our rotation. you better hope to hell that SW:P with an extra 1k sp buff added to it doesn't fall off, your dps will plummet but of course everyone still wants to you swap to every other add and multidot even though you'll be OOM if you do, all while maintaining SW:P and killing your dps in the long run

[nilmer]

Whats an Epeen?

Bottoming out both dps and raid utility provides for a very satisfying gaming experience ... or does it?

[Deleted]

Blizzard acknowledged that the buff they gave us blows? Show me where, i wanna see this with my own eyes.

[blizzquote author=Ghostcrawler]In the case of Shadow priests, we thought damage was a little low and made a very small adjustment. Many Shadow priests think their dps is still unacceptably low, but we don't agree. (That also doesn't mean we won't make changes in the future. We do change our minds.) Vanish failing is a bug, but it's a hard one to fix, and rogues are dominant in both PvE and PvP despite of it, so it's also not a "all hands on deck" problem either. [b][/blizzquote]

Actually he did a little bit better and said we are fine. After all the data, theorycrafting and player base expiriences presented we get the infamous "We think X is fine." reply. It's like talking to a 5 year old when he ignores everything you say. I really feel sorry for those ppl who have made long, well written and thought out post collecting all the information, just to get the same reply as a typical qq thread, only without the buffs.

[Worshaka]

Actually he did a little bit better and said we are fine. After all the data, theorycrafting and player base expiriences presented we get the infamous "We think X is fine." reply. It's like talking to a 5 year old when he ignores everything you say. I really feel sorry for those ppl who have made long, well written and thought out post collecting all the information, just to get the same reply as a typical qq thread, only without the buffs.

So either you are insinuating that the extensive data collection and analysis by blizzard is incorrect or that individuals who usually do far less reliable data analysis know more than blizzard. Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Blizzard may know more than the average wow player on occasion?

[ZeroXell]

So either you are insinuating that the extensive data collection and analysis by blizzard is incorrect or that individuals who usually do far less reliable data analysis know more than blizzard. Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Blizzard may know more than the average wow player on occasion?

Blizzard can make mistakes too, like "Paladins are fine, l2p" at the start of the xpac. So much for their extensive data collection. I was playing the beta and all you saw were 10 pallys plus 5 unholy dk on every SotA.

[Abolishment]

Actually he did a little bit better and said we are fine. After all the data, theorycrafting and player base expiriences presented we get the infamous "We think X is fine." reply. It's like talking to a 5 year old when he ignores everything you say. I really feel sorry for those ppl who have made long, well written and thought out post collecting all the information, just to get the same reply as a typical qq thread, only without the buffs.

Players have a tendency to let their personal agenda dictate their actions and reactions. Blizzard knows this. If every player had 100% control of the direction, buffs, and nerfs that came to their class, we'd all be playing Dragonball Z, where everyone one-shots everyone else, unless they don't, in which case they need to be buffed (via 20 filler episodes of ridiculous training and half-hearted side-stories).

Shadow Priests have problems, yes. More than other classes? Maybe. Maybe not. Elemental Shamans seem to develop scaling problems every tier, even after multiple adjustments.

It's hard to look at 10 unique classes and say "Nerf A by 2.734%, buff B by 1.0005837%, class C is now our DPS standard, but their healing needs to be brought up 4.28% without affecting their scaling or DPS potential", etc. Every class scales differently from different stats, buffs, gimmicks, raid compositions, and more. If on a high-mobility fight, the Balance Druids suffer from a 12% DPS loss, is it ok that they pull ahead by 65% on an add-heavy fight? Or should Starfire do 12% more damage to compensate for those few fights, but Hurricane nerfed by 65% so they don't pull ahead of Arms Warriors on AoE fights?

No.

And that's called balance. Pick it apart and over-analyze it, and you'll find it's not fair. Once you can tell it's imbalanced without the use of spreadsheets and DPS meters that estimate a 2% decline in performance per raid tier, that's when Blizzard steps in. Micro-managing 30+ potential specs every time a new item or raid comes out would be insanity.

[Cleir]

in my small opinion I don't feel the shadow priest is lacking in any way really. I like where our dps is right now. we (the 3 in the guild) are often around the middle of the metre, topping it on some fights and holding our own on the rest. I don't feel in any way shape or form we are the lowest dps of all the classes/specs.

I feel our mana efficiency is about right. we're not struggling and we do have to think about it still. the change to twisted faith increased my SP slightly, although I have started to slack spirit in favour of haste/crit. I started to stack crit and get rid of haste whereever possible. now I've upped my haste to around 450 and really seen a nice increase of dps as a result.

I'm still putting down around 4k on the dummy after a quick test last night now I have the 4 set bonus.

[Deleted]

So either you are insinuating that the extensive data collection and analysis by blizzard is incorrect or that individuals who usually do far less reliable data analysis know more than blizzard. Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Blizzard may know more than the average wow player on occasion?

We don't know, that was my point exactly. The reply gives no insight to how blizz came up with their oppinion.

There's a 47 page thread on the offial forums about the subject, which contains some very high quality posts pointing out the current spriest concearns with arguments and data, from ppl that have far better knowledge in shadow than average player. And the aswer was: "We don't agree, (but we do change our minds)". It's not a discussion really.

I don't know where you get your trust in Blizzards expertise in this matter but I don't share your faith in Blizzards wisdom. They simply haven't shown any shadow expertise in their posts, quite the opposite from time to time actually. They have been wrong many times before, even with quite obvious issues.

[Purple]

more like 1-200 SP

Did....... you ever pass a math class?

Our scaling issues go far, far outside of the realm of things spell power can fix, all on its own, as is. Don't even try to deny this.

So either you are insinuating that the extensive data collection and analysis by blizzard is incorrect

Okay, first off, Blizzard has been seriously, unquestionably wrong about things in the past. Do we have to go over the "Inner Fire is just like a Warrior Shout" episode again?

or that individuals who usually do far less reliable data analysis know more than blizzard.

Believe it or not, many developers prior to WoW coming around depended on Players to do these things. Mythic back during DAoC openly admitted their players would inevitably know more about the game and its mechanics than them. Most developers won't do that, but you'd be surprised just how often it's proven true.

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Blizzard may know more than the average wow player on occasion?

Many of the people that run the good, truly in depth, tests of damage and other factors aren't your average WoW players. In fact they go into a lot more depth than they're given credit for, and Blizzard like to pick out the ones run by people that don't go into more depth to pick apart - rather than the good ones. It's a basic tactic you see in anything commercial, "We take the weakest argument, pick it apart mercilessly, and pretend we didn't see the good argument."

We don't know, that was my point exactly. The reply gives no insight to how blizz came up with their oppinion.

They do this a lot. They love to talk about their internal testing, and what it's discovered, but rarely give us any true insight into exactly how they came up with their conclusions.

There's a 47 page thread on the offial forums about the subject, which contains some very high quality posts pointing out the current spriest concearns with arguments and data, from ppl that have far better knowledge in shadow than average player. And the aswer was: "We don't agree, (but we do change our minds)". It's not a discussion really.

This is how they've handled most of the past Shadow threads, especially the large ones. They'll respond left and right to various threads around the forum, and, eventually, when that one absolutely gigantic shadow tree has become a suffocatingly large elephant in the room they'll finally respond to it. And their response may not even have anything to do with the subject of the thread, if we're unlucky (it may even chastise players saying they're "fishing for blues" when only some posts were doing that and others posts were perfectly legitimate), and if we're very, very lucky they might post something relevant to the subject to the tune of, "We don't see a problem" or "We'll think about it" or "We're brewing something, we won't tell you what it is but we think it's really great!"

Their idea of "really great" can sometimes be a tad....... strange.

The worst is when they derail a thread, Blues posting off topic and derailing a thread is the worst, and it's not just Shadow spec priest threads they treat like this. They do it to plenty of players, every class at some point has gotten this treatment and it never ceases to be insulting.

I don't know where you get your trust in Blizzards expertise in this matter but I don't share your faith in Blizzards wisdom. They simply haven't shown any shadow expertise in their posts, quite the opposite from time to time actually. They have been wrong many times before, even with quite obvious issues.

Indeed, at the end of the day they're simple flawed human beings, just like everyone else. They are perfectly capable of being wrong, skirting issues, avoiding them, and outright lying sometimes - no matter what they say (because they obviously admit to it when they lied, right? And not feign honesty. Companies never lie to their consumers. Ever. Not even once. EVER).

[Deleted]

in my small opinion I don't feel the shadow priest is lacking in any way really. I like where our dps is right now. we (the 3 in the guild) are often around the middle of the metre, topping it on some fights and holding our own on the rest. I don't feel in any way shape or form we are the lowest dps of all the classes/specs.

I feel our mana efficiency is about right. we're not struggling and we do have to think about it still. the change to twisted faith increased my SP slightly, although I have started to slack spirit in favour of haste/crit. I started to stack crit and get rid of haste whereever possible. now I've upped my haste to around 450 and really seen a nice increase of dps as a result.

I'm still putting down around 4k on the dummy after a quick test last night now I have the 4 set bonus.

I've been building my gear with the same principles, trying to replace haste with sp/crit whenever possible and it has worked nicely for me.
Currently got about 2650sp, 25% crit, 320 haste with selfbuffs and hit capped ofc.

I was able to pull 6250dps on Koralon-25 yesterday in a crappy raid, without flasks or anything. I was quite lucky with the fires and only moved during GCDs, so I managed to maintain a near perfect rotation with very little conflicts with spells. RNG aside, I think that is my very close to my single target dps cap with the current gear.

The freshly buffed elemental shammy in similar gear did 7k btw. That's well beyond what is humanly possible with my current spriest. Yea, yea...I know the sample size is too small, just another observation I made between shadow and the allegedly UP elemental shaman.

The mana regen buff with 3.2.2 I don't understand, mana was never a problem before. Now with the buffed IST it's quite ridiculous tbh, there's no way I can run oom and the effect on dps with that buff was marginal.

[Kelesti]

So either you are insinuating that the extensive data collection and analysis by blizzard is incorrect or that individuals who usually do far less reliable data analysis know more than blizzard. Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Blizzard may know more than the average wow player on occasion?

I think Ghostcrawler saying that Mind Control using enemy players abilities is clear a clear sign of how well their "data collection and analysis" is completely possible of being "incorrect". Or that the average wow player knows more than them when it comes to Priests.

Dispersion being an awesome Shadow Priest ability for PvP, because every shadow priest takes it (when there's so much better to get when you're that deep into the tree : ) proves another point. Or giving an increase in Spirit as a "buff", which (yes) it is, but not to the matter they say it is. You say yourself, your BiS is going to have 400 spirit. So giving you an extra 40 SP overall, yes, is a buff. Is it really contributing to higher DPS? What about when you dish points into an always up Improved Spirit Tap? Still not noticable? Right.

They are FAR from being infallible.

[Worshaka]

I think Ghostcrawler saying that Mind Control using enemy players abilities is clear a clear sign of how well their "data collection and analysis" is completely possible of being "incorrect". Or that the average wow player knows more than them when it comes to Priests.

Dispersion being an awesome Shadow Priest ability for PvP, because every shadow priest takes it (when there's so much better to get when you're that deep into the tree : ) proves another point. Or giving an increase in Spirit as a "buff", which (yes) it is, but not to the matter they say it is. You say yourself, your BiS is going to have 400 spirit. So giving you an extra 40 SP overall, yes, is a buff. Is it really contributing to higher DPS? What about when you dish points into an always up Improved Spirit Tap? Still not noticable? Right.

They are FAR from being infallible.

My point is everyone is arrogant enough to believe they know better... the concept that perhaps they don't know better doesn't even occur to them.

And it's very easy to attack comments that were probably drafted in a relative 5mins of Ghostcrawler's time, do you honnestly think Blizzard are going to keep lead designers who have no idea? Perhaps the real issue is GC's communication skills, not his design skills. Not to mention that GC probably doesn't even run the data analysis team...

[Deleted]

My point is everyone is arrogant enough to believe they know better... the concept that perhaps they don't know better doesn't even occur to them.

Unfortunately it seems like Blizzard does this too, with the exception that they are rarely willing to share the information to support their beliefs, which makes it even more arrogant.