does anyone else think wow heroes has ruined the raiding experence?

[the1seth]

Ok firstoff i understand why WoW Heroes was created in the first place, to allow players to be able to easily figure out what raids they should focus on by way of a score based on your level, gear, enchants and gems and based on that you know if you have the gear to competently particapate in a given raid. It also allows raid leaders to check on a player whom they are considering letting into their raid based on their WHR score they can tell if a player has the proper gear to be able to pull their own weight in a raid. Now all this is great except the fact that it is misused horribly.

So often i will try to get into a raid and the guy leading the raid will ask for my WHR (WoW heroes rating) i'll send it to them and get rejected because its too low according to the raid leader. I will then go and check it myself only to find that i am well within the range to run said raid and the raid leader has just upped the requirement himself because apparently anyone who dosn't have a WHR 200 points above what it really needs absoutly cannot pull enough DPS to be able to kill the bosses. now i know that 200 points dosn't seem like that much but there is a huge gear difference between a 2000 WHR and a 2200 WHR and it never takes into account the players skill i have seen two blood dps dk's the only real difference between the two was their gear, one was totally decked out in Ulduar 25 gear while the other had an assortment of starter epics(the ones you get out of heroics) and the really geared dk pulled 3.9k dps on emalon definatly nothing to sneez at but the under geared pulled 4.3k dps and that is the difference between skill and gear. Which tells me that the raid leader isn't doing the raid for the gear progression like its ment to be done he's just doing it to say that they cleared nax 25 in 2 hours. Furthermore according to wow heros players with a WHR of 2200 should be looking into doing Ulduar 25 and yet whenever i look for a nax 25 i see the same thing, LFM Nax 25 must have 2200 WHR and acheivement. and there is another thing that has ruined wow raiding for non raiders(i.e people not in a full time raiding guild) is acheivements , I cannot stand the douchebags that require you to have the acheivement for a raid even if you have the nessary WHR by their overrated standards because you have never run the raid before. I get wanting people who know the fight but everyone has had a first time doing a raid or so i thought and unless you are in a full time raiding guild there is no way to get the acheiviment because every other douchebag out there running pug raids demands the acheivement.

All i have posted here is based on my experence on my server on my faction, i know that things on other servers and different factions are likely to be different but i would like to find out if there is such a place that dosn't require a 2400 WHR for a heroic pug(and yes i have seen that on my server.)

[Sellest]

I have no idea what are you talking about. I was able to get into most of pugs even with bad gear and no achivement. I was still able to do my job (well not as good as if I would have better gear but still I did better then some bad players with better gear) I never heard about wow heroes same as people on my server.

[Atty]

Hardly.

Only retards judge people by their wow heroes rating and achievements. In fact, I think wow heroes score is based solely on ilvl so a dk wearing full lvl245 spellpower plate would get higher score than a dk wearing lvl213 str plate.

[domzae]

Tips to get around the system:

1. Log out in your highest item level gear.
2. L2Fake achievements.
3. Get lots of pugging friends through heroics
4. Change servers.
5. Delete World of Warcraft.

[Soulbender]

not yet seen a WHR requirement (wtf?) on my server

Shouldn't be hard to raise anyway, just run VoA / Ony and buy badge gear. Only thing i can agree is if you're still geared in 200/213 gear by now, you probly are not worth taking in a raid

i fail however to see how raiding experience could be ruined.

You either got a guild and raid, or you pug. If you pug, it'll be a totally random experience. What has gear got to do with that?

[Aerikaya]

I used to use wow-heroes to check players but since the everything-drops-conquest change its pretty useless to judge abilities based off gear alone. It may say they should be doing Uld25/ToC10 but they have never even cleared Naxx. Sites like Pugchecker are much more useful, giving average item level and a breakdown of how many times a player has downed every boss in the game-heroics and raids. I would rather have a lower iLvl raider that has done the bosses than a higher iLvl that has never been past Lootviathan.

[derastraz]

In my server all I see is 'TOC 10m GS ABOVE 4700+ ONLY',I think wowheros has no influence.Rather its people wanting others to have a high GS,which assumes you have the best suited highest ilv gear.

[anathemaa]

I see it all the time on my server, Demon Soul. Though they just call it a "gearscore", using the wowheroes gearscore as the judging factor. Pretty lame stuff. I see naxx runs advertised often, requiring full or half Uldar gear levels to get in + achievement. Basically they are invalidating gear progression for new 80's, forcing you to run a zillion heroics for badge gear instead.(which gear ends up removing your need to run nax at all.) Nax is now only for badge-running, not for getting actual gear upgrades. And I'm already starting to see Uldar runs that require at least partial ToC10/25 gear levels + Uldar achievment to get into. Frigging hilarious how the gearscore+achiev retards are ruining content. -lmao-

Solutions:
1) Pvp gear is easy to get, costs u nothing but a little time, and passes the gearscore check. This gets you past the gearscore hurdle.
2) Keep an eye out for the pug raids that run on the day before the weekly reset. They are much easier to get into, as the elitist badge-runners have already run everything by then. This gets you past the Achievement hurdle.
3) Start your own raid for what content you want to run. Master looter isn't hard to do. Just make sure you actually are ready to run the raid in question. This bypasses both hurdles.

[yaij9841]

Only thing i can agree is if you're still geared in 200/213 gear by now, you probly are not worth taking in a raid

:

i'm sure there is absolutely no way a person can still be wearing 200/213 lvl gear today in this time at all.

[Harlequinn]

4700 gearscore for 10man regular toc!? That is completely absurd! I ran a buddy through it this week who was in blues and greens, the week before we had 3 people in 10 man Naxx gear and we still didn't wipe. Wow heroes is the retards tool, get gearscore, it's a bit more accurate (lenient) imo. A few things both systems do not take into account are BiS items that carry a lower item level but have ridiculously good stats or procs. A good example would be the Illustration off Sartharian which is still insanely good. I think as long as everyone has the achievement at least they should be fine regardless of wow heroes or gearscore ratings.

On a sidenote, relying on pugs to get gear is not a fun thing. Find a guild that runs these raid instances imo.

[Desdemona]

The real solution is simple: Demand Blizzard get rid of the Armory.

It really is that simple.

[Tergha]

Thank god for dragonblight where people dont care about gear for badge runs!
And to whoever said 200/213 gear isnt good enough for naxx, your retarded. People dont seem to realize that those items are what is expected in those raids because that was the highest gear there was when it was released.

[Dotyz]

Never heard of it, till i read this. So nope, doesnt for me.

[Mascotte]

Never heard of it, till i read this. So nope, doesnt for me.

Same, just ignore em.

[Harlequinn]

http://www.pugchecker.com/ OMG this thing is awesome! Although not entirely accurate it's still better then nothing. Kudos to Aerikaya for posting this great tool.

[chuck123]

i organize alot of pugs, from altramas to CChardmodes and i have joined alot of "rng pugs" on several chars.
however i never used WHR to judge.

1) pugchecker.com is a HANDY site where u have a vast overview of what the char has been doin and if the character has repeteatly killed bosses you are goin for, or if the progression of the char is ok for the rest of the grp.

2) when you join a pug,the only guaranteed loot is an emblem... everything else is bonus when the raidleader turns out not 2 be a ninjajackass.

3) if you setup a run, talk 2 the ppl in /w before you invite them and clarify your goals.
90% of the time retards get reveald thru that.

[chuck123]

http://www.pugchecker.com/ OMG this thing is awesome! Although not entirely accurate it's still better then nothing. Kudos to Aerikaya for posting this great tool.

aw u beat me 2 it

oh and also "WARRIOR DPS 12k" or similar u dont even have 2 check ot ofc.

[Krullthor]

i'm sure there is absolutely no way a person can still be wearing 200/213 lvl gear today in this time at all.

actually.. my 3rd L80 puppet is still wearing some iLevel 200 gear.

anyway.. if iLevel is the only requirement it should be a good reason for you not to join that PuG. I've been in lots of groups with people that obviously got their epics through tagging along with with friends in good groups, and 99% of the time they are being outperformed by people in blues/starter-epics that know how to play their class.

a big part of performing is knowing how to play your class and knowing your role.
convincing the RL that you know how to do that and that you don't have epics on your Xth puppet yet will get you into groups

edit: I see a lot of remarks about pugchecker.
pugchecker may tell you whether a particular puppet has been to a particular instance, it still tells you nothing about skill / whether someone got boosted into epics / whether it is a main character or the #th alt of a very good player
edit2: I fully agree with post below mine. I happen to know people that perform way better than they should and people that perform way worse than I thought technically possible with their gear

[Bigsilly]

Yeah, with all the badge gear and easy 232/245's from Onyxia. You REALLY should check the Armory before you base it off a wow-heroes score. In my guild, we have a lock with under a 2k gear score pulling 4k, yet i pugged a HToC with a tank and healer in almost all ToC10 gear and they couldnt stay alive long enough to kill the Black Knight. . .

[Fenixdown]

Personally, I don't even bother with people who use sites to determine if a player is any good. If I see a person wanting to pug a raqid when I'm on my main and they're asking for achievements/gear checks/ect., I don't offer to help them out (and not for lack of either, my main is pretty decked out and has fully cleared just about everything).

I can understand for certian things. Example, if you want to pug a Sarth3D. Then it makes sense to look at least at gear, especially for your DPSers. Still, I know TONS of people who have top gear scores and still die to every void zone and pull 2600 DPS.

But for heroics and Naxx? I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. I understand the concept of "fast runs", but people are new to the game sometimes, or playing on alts. I'd like to see someone tell me I can't do Ulduar 10 on my alt DK because I "don't have the achievements" when I'm only 4 shy of a proto-drake (and only one of those is even a difficult one, Firefighter's already done but Yogg+1 is still missing).

I do agree, people need to get this "gear = skill" mentality out of their freaking system. That hasn't applied to anything since pre-BC. Even in BC it was still somewhat concievable that gear meant some skill, but nowadays it's a joke to get some decent stuff. If you're putting in a halfassed effort you can get an okay set of epics in no time.

When I actually do run pug raids on my DK, I make it clear that achievement checks and armory links aren't going to be used for these same reasons. I'm not "that guy". I've led raids off and on for a very long time, and understand that it doesn't take full ilvl to make a good player. Skill is skill and should be rewarded. Gear doesn't make the player, the person playing does.

Honestly, I pass this message to anyone that reads this topic. If you see anyone making such dubious requests, educate them, whether it be nicely or harshly. Besides which, most of the time when people are asking for all that stuff it's because they want to be carried through themselves (they don't have achievements or are still in blues and greens), in which case anyone in their group should have that pointed out. The idiotards that play this game need to get it through their thick heads that this game isn't that serious, and raids stopped being hard after Sunwell.