New Nova Spell

[Deleted]

The simple fix to address the concerns expressed here is for them to change the glyph from 3 sec CD reduction to 2 or 3 sec stun.

This would then give PvP players a choice and it would be more balanced being a 2 or 3 second stun on a 6 second CD (talented).

It is then equally valid for PvP or PvE and a buff to both (unless of course it means giving up a better PvP glyph - don't PvP so not sure on that one).

I will post this suggestion on the PTR forums and see if we can't get a mature logical focused debate going in the same way we managed to get the expertise added to unleashed rage talent in 3.1. However the change affects PvP so mature, logical and focused debate is unlikely - whiny, crying and emo is far more likely, sadly.

[sparks]

see if we can't get a mature logical focused debate going

so we can't have a mature logical debate here? LOL

I am just afraid that they are going in 20 directions and yes they will make changes
Will those changes make any since, add to our play or change our damage.
Change just to make change is not going to change anything.
WTF did he just say?

I wanted to add one more thing, I think that bliz has not even looked at shaman for 3+ years.
Now they look and do not understand. HEY they want changes? What kind of changes? Hell I don't know.
I don't think they are now saying this rotation or these totems need changing. I really don't believe they want to
make any earth shaking changes that will have people say op or anything.
So the only class that has been neglected and forgotten will be micro managed to the end.

Well we can allow 17 dps on enh without having anyone bitch. Ok
and this ele is the pits we can allow 102 dps if they drop this totem and stand in the corner on their head
and change this without anyone bitching.
OK hey that was easy.
Lets do lunch

[Baabinator]

I will post this suggestion on the PTR forums and see if we can't get a mature logical focused debate going in the same way we managed to get the expertise added to unleashed rage talent in 3.1. However the change affects PvP so mature, logical and focused debate is unlikely - whiny, crying and emo is far more likely, sadly.

Yep, sadly a shaman is either good at his class, willing to learn and listen and very often a mature experienced player.

-Or someone who fell on his head upon birth, and tries to faceroll a hard class to 2k+ rating or w/e but then cries about it because he can't faceroll his shaman unlike his ret.

see if we can't get a mature logical focused debate going

so we can't have a mature logical debate here? LOL

I am just afraid that they are going in 20 directions and yes they will make changes
Will those changes make any since, add to our play or change our damage.
Change just to make change is not going to change anything.
WTF did he just say?

I think he meant to say that we should have a mature logical (meaning based on facts, or common knowledge) argument about the new Nova spell.

But some of the shamans only do pvp, and hardly know much about the mechanics involved in shamans and will /nerdrage about this, instead of coming up with arguments, facts, and theorycrafts.

Brainless pvp'er:

NERF NERF NERF, BLIZZ HATES SHAMANS, /ROLLING RET

Intelligent player:

This is a nerf to some extend, but a buff to another extend. But since we needed the Imp. Fire nova totem stun alot to avert melee classes and sometimes even the class that is chasing us down, we should get some compensation. I suggest the following: ""SMART INTERPRETATION"

You see?

[Deleted]

Post is now at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...235911&sid=1#0

@Sparks - I take personal offence as a moderator that we don't try to keep debates here mature logical and focused. I do a lot of work in this forum deleting the worst of the crap idiots post. However more people need to use the report button to highlight the crap its as we then get an email and its quicker to get it fixed. Agreed that perhaps the general forum on MMO isn't as clean but I hope most shamans here agree that this forum is generally of a pretty high standard.

Note that primarily the worst whining on any threads here or elsewhere is PvP that's the thing that arouses the greatest passions and the greatest amount of irrationality.

On the Blizzard forums its a LOT worse than here.

[Rifee]

make the nova effect give a 2 second desorient effect, and give it a dr.

[Deleted]

make the nova effect give a 2 second desorient effect, and give it a dr.

Over powered. A two second disorient effect on a 3 second cooldown. Na not going to happen. A 2 second stun on a 6 second cooldown tethered to a fire totem location - decently balanced.

[Baabinator]

@ Levva

I foresee a problem with your suggestion.

An Enhancement shaman with access to the Fire nova talent and your requested glyph will also be able to stun any target for 2 seconds, every 6 seconds.

Stuns for melee classes are already very, very potent, but a stun on such short cooldown might be a little bit over the top and cause heavy frustration amongst other pvp'ers.

Searing totem for example is a totem (duh) and only has a 1.0 GCD, and costs the low price of only 7% base mana (which is hardly noticable) and could be used to quickly drop it and then activate the stun from Fire Nova.

I like it, but I foresee problems. Also because it's aoe, and an aoe 6s cooldown fire nova stun is kinda generous.

Perhaps something in deep elemental should provide the stun back and the glyph could be changed to apply 6 seconds of Flame Shock (or something)

[Rabidthunder]

Agreed, AoE stun on 6 sec CD and ranged interrupt on 6 sec CD and purge to remove something like aura mastery is too much pain for any healer (and most caster DPS) to bear. Even with diminishing returns that gonna lock down anything too effectively. Then probably if glyph would have increases Nova's CD by say 6 sec - that would be possibly be balanced, as one can't chain interrupts and stuns in such scenario.

[tremulant]

If You are a Enhancement shaman and you find yourself with free gcd's chances are you are not doing your rotation properly

you're assuming fire nova will be very low on the priority list,

my guess, from seeing the damage it does on videos, is that it will be above mw4_lb and even above lava lash, so it will be part of the rotation.
either way, it will be great to have another button to push on a fight like Anub'arak heroic25 besides mw chain lightning.

[Omanley]

i dont see the stun as thaaaat overpowered, you are still able to bypass the firetotem or destroy it with 1 swing

also it´s only a 2 seconds stun, with diminishing returns to boot

fire nova -> 2 seconds stun -> 4 seconds nothing -> fire nova -> 1 seconds stun -> 5 seconds nothing -> fire nova -> nothing

that´s 3 seconds in stunning if im correct, over the course of 18 seconds... not that impressive, compared to a rogue who can stun you for 11 seconds when coming out of stealth, and after restealthing being able to do all of that again... plus all of the other things he can use...

it would be a slight pvp buff to fire nova stun, but with the prior nerfs we got, we are in a very tight spot atm.

unless we get some cool new stuff i dont think a stun, which is avoidable, costs a good amount of mana, and lasts only for 2 seconds is overpowered

[Augrelle]

mmm I know this is mainly a debates on PvP and what not, but I was thinking of having a Dual-spec Fire Nova build for AoE groups (Three or more) as Enhancement. Magma Totem + 3 second cooldown on Fire Nova, Followed by Mealstorm Chain lightning. Maybe tab around flameshock every target as well.

Glyphs could be the Chain lightning Glyph, Fire nova glyph, and I don't know what to do for the 3rd glyph.

Thought I guess that also depends on how much damage CL + Magma totem + Fire Nova can do vs multiple targerts vs the normal rotation vs a single target.

Thought on normal boss fights I would go with the normal spec of course.

[Strat]

mmm I know this is mainly a debates on PvP and what not, but I was thinking of having a Dual-spec Fire Nova build for AoE groups (Three or more) as Enhancement. Magma Totem + 3 second cooldown on Fire Nova, Followed by Mealstorm Chain lightning. Maybe tab around flameshock every target as well.

Glyphs could be the Chain lightning Glyph, Fire nova glyph, and I don't know what to do for the 3rd glyph.

Thought I guess that also depends on how much damage CL + Magma totem + Fire Nova can do vs multiple targerts vs the normal rotation vs a single target.

Thought on normal boss fights I would go with the normal spec of course.

Your third glyph would be ToW for the extra 80 sp power. Drop ur ToW before the pull, then run in and replace with magma in the pack. Your 80 sp buff lasts for 5 min which should be sufficient to nuke the baddies.

[Strat]

I'm VERY glad people are coming up with useful discussion on the topic. This small change has far-reaching effects for the class pvp-wise as damage was plentiful for ele and enh shaman but utility was lacking for defense mechanisms.
I do pve and pvp. So there is a fine balance and it's pointless to whine about one to the thoughtless exclusion of the other.

What I see as the drawbacks from the pvp side of things is losing a very effective kiting tool/deterant. The fire nova allowed a very easily locked-down ele shaman to breath for 2 seconds so that he could free cast that long until the interrupt/stun train caught up to him and he had to ghost wolf/earthbind away. Or for the enh shaman to a)run or b) nuke for 2s whilst under extreme pressure. Of a dps pvp shaman's abilities it is one of their most powerful if employed correctly, hence why many shaman bemoan it's loss.
The drawbacks I see from the pve side of things is that the shaman must still run into melee range, losing valuable dps time or subjecting themselves to melee mechanics of boss-fights. Also, to use for maximum efficiency in pve aoe situations, the shaman must glyph for it (last i checked, mages didnt glyph for blizzard and Blizzard devs gave arcane mages blizzard spell viability in their trees so they didnt have to walk into the midst of mobs and arcane explosion).

My suggestion, though I think Blizzard will be loath to give another ability, would be to give a mobility talent.
A) give ghost wolf the ability to be used in-doors and make instant ghostwolf baseline so that pve shaman can get to the pack faster and back to safety without losing as much dps time. This also slightly benefits the pvp shaman in terms of the opportunity cost of two talent points.
B) give a speed burst style ability to elemental. Lightning Rush, or something along those lines, which would compensate for the mobility loss of a stun/get away from the totem deterrant which shaman had every 15s.

As it was a clunky mechanic in pvp to use effectively, I'm not sorry to see it go away, but the fact remains that it was on a very short CD and became integral to high-end shaman pvp play. It was never used in pve after magma was buffed so it wont be missed from that perspective. Still, this is only it's first iteration and I hope that shaman are compensated for a very very important defensive CD.

[erock]

I haven't read all posts, so forgive me if this is a repeat. I think fire nova will still be a 10 yard explosion when talented into elemental reach. The tooltip for fire nova shows its range to be 30 yards and the tooltip for elemental reach says that the range of fire nova will be increased by 6 yards, while it says thunderstorm's radius will be increased by 20(?)%. If they were to increase fire nova's radius it probably would've used that word.

So.. it can now be used triggered at the same range as lava burst/lightning bolt, but will probably only explode for 10 yards still.

[Deleted]

I haven't read all posts, so forgive me if this is a repeat. I think fire nova will still be a 10 yard explosion when talented into elemental reach. The tooltip for fire nova shows its range to be 30 yards and the tooltip for elemental reach says that the range of fire nova will be increased by 6 yards, while it says thunderstorm's radius will be increased by 20(?)%. If they were to increase fire nova's radius it probably would've used that word.

So.. it can now be used triggered at the same range as lava burst/lightning bolt, but will probably only explode for 10 yards still.

Can confirm this, Tooltip is saying exact that mechanic.

[Strat]

With 3343 SP and fully talented it hits for 4800 to 5020. Both call of flame and improved fire nova talents affect it currently on the PTR. On a side note, I'm getting creamed by melee classes in arena skirmishes now. They can sit on my and interrupt and my only way to break is roots and one TS.
Soo, after testing....
1) I like the fact that it's an instant I can use while during a moving phase although it crits for less than a frostshock (5600 at same sp and same testing) so it gets secondary priority,
2) I like the damage for elemental aoe, it is worth the GCD to place the totem and go boom even if I am now a melee mage and my raid leader starts to consider me as melee when thinking of melee/ranged composition.
3)I think Blizzard is going to have to compensate for shaman pvp or they will be in big trouble.

[CookieEater]

Your third glyph would be ToW for the extra 80 sp power. Drop ur ToW before the pull, then run in and replace with magma in the pack. Your 80 sp buff lasts for 5 min which should be sufficient to nuke the baddies.

He's asking for Enhancement, not Elemental.

[Augrelle]

Yeah, Shat you should read. I asked as enhancement. There is a reason why I said enhancement and mealstorm weapon. Soooo, ToW is out of the question.

[CookieEater]

Yeah, Shat you should read. I asked as enhancement. There is a reason why I said enhancement and mealstorm weapon. Soooo, ToW is out of the question.

And I think I have a decent answer for you: Glyph of Flametongue Weapon would probably be best for AoE, since all your AoE abilities are spells. 2% Crit isn't that worthless.

[Sidonis]

Give it the slow from Blast Wave, and have it originate from the caster not the totem. You're still running in and dropping Magma in PvE for AoE anyways, as well as probably getting a glyphed TS off. This just keeps it from totally gimping you in PvP.

If necessary, put it on a shared 6 second cooldown with TS to keep it from being too powerful in PvP for a back to back slow/knockback (even though you'd be taking 2 spells/globals to do what mages do with Blast Wave alone).

Remove the CD reducers from talents (replace with +dmg/increased slowing effect), and put in a minor glyph that reduces the cooldown but removes slowing effect.

I'm not a mathamagician, so I don't know what the exact numbers would be, but I'm sure the people responsible for numbers could take these parameters and adjust it's damage accordingly, both base and talented.