BM hunters, now even more useless.

[Elenion]

BM hunters are too easy to play.

Any other classes other than SV/MM DKs are like that

[Shawaam]

By the old 41/20/0 spec so u mean when hunters were so off balance that it wasn't even fair, volley was 50% of our dmg and our pet was the other 50%. it was extremely OP, blizz fixed it.

I was talking about tbc, the time when volley had 1 minute cooldown and it couldn't be 50% of our damage unless you went afk between those cds

[Rilgon]

Surv/MM pet dies, hunter loses 3-600dps depending on pet.

looooooooooooool

[Muffinator]

MM playing is like a ret paladin, except we have filler.

When Chim/aimed/arcane/ are off cooldown, spam steady, otherwise just mash chim/aimed/arcane when they come off cooldown.

Pretty much it. How is that harder than BM? Actually having to time your KC with cobrastrikes/trinkets/BW/actually caring whether or not your pet dies, plus, MM/SV are a LOT more forgiving if you mess up a little.

[Lysah]

MM playing is like a ret paladin, except we have filler.

When Chim/aimed/arcane/ are off cooldown, spam steady, otherwise just mash chim/aimed/arcane when they come off cooldown.

Pretty much it. How is that harder than BM? Actually having to time your KC with cobrastrikes/trinkets/BW/actually caring whether or not your pet dies, plus, MM/SV are a LOT more forgiving if you mess up a little.

[sicness]

MM playing is like a ret paladin, except we have filler.

When Chim/aimed/arcane/ are off cooldown, spam steady, otherwise just mash chim/aimed/arcane when they come off cooldown.

Pretty much it. How is that harder than BM? Actually having to time your KC with cobrastrikes/trinkets/BW/actually caring whether or not your pet dies, plus, MM/SV are a LOT more forgiving if you mess up a little.

You don't care if your pet dies as MM/Surv...? You don't time KC and pet abilities with bloodlust/trinkets in MM/Surv? I'm just saying that you should do the same thing regardless of spec. And how is MM/Surv more forgiving if you mess up a little, because you actually have more opportunity to mess up with those specs considering the cool downs you use are shorter therein you use them more often and they add up to more of your overall dps. Add in knowing when the most opportune time to use readiness is for an encounter as well and I'd say yes that it is a bit more complex than BM. Not bashing BM hunters, just saying that there's more to marksmen/survival than spamming all abilities as they come off cool down like you say it is.

[Rilgon]

BM playing is like a ret paladin, except we have filler.

When multi/arcane are off cooldown, spam steady, otherwise just mash multi/arcane when they come off cooldown.

Pretty much it. How is that harder than MM?

fixt (ignoring Serpent for the sake of making your quote near-identical)

MM/SV still have to do just as much pet management and cooldown coordination as BM has to do. Yes, like you said, we lose out less when we make mistakes on the pet side of things, but we also lose far more when we err on our rotation.

[kesukei]

I can't remember many times when there has been a really genuine debate about whether BM/MM or SV is the best build. In the case of hunters one tree has always been the runt while the other two have their merits. For much of TBC survivial was a joke (all it really did was buff hunter melee which is pointless anyway). Now SV is the specc I see most often. If you don't like that BM isn't good enough, get over it.

This is warcraft, and this is how it goes. Just because one spec is bad and the others are good doesnt mean it should get buffed. Give it time and BM will be 'the' spec to choose once more, and MM or SV will become the runt again.

As for wanting a unique ability from BM, you have several - noteably the ability to tame exotic beasts. Chimera shot is the MM ability and Explosive/Black arrow the SV ones. But even then, none of those 'special' abilities are that special. Its just about how you want do deal the damage. Hunters will never see the kind of talent diversity that hybrids get because they are a pure DPS class, so ultimately any spec will always reach the same endpoint. Thats why when people ask again and again "what should I spec to level, what should I spec to raid" etc, my answer has always been the same - spec whatever you want because the difference between them will usually be neglibible. The real numbercrunchers who need to choose a careful spec are the guys in Trial of the grand crusader in all ilvl 245+ gear with BiS items who are desperately trying to pump their dps up just that little bit more in order to achieve the very high end content. But for the rest of us, its just not that big a deal.

[Rilgon]

For much of TBC survivial was a joke

Uh...

This is warcraft, and this is how it goes. Just because one spec is bad and the others are good doesnt mean it should get buffed.

oh i get it you're trolling that makes sense

[Muffinator]

@Rilgon


I was merely making a counter argument to people who say BM is 10x easier than MM/SV. All hunter specs are easy really, only difference being you watch different things. In my experience, MM is amazingly easy, like, I wait for the buttons to flash for being off cooldown and hit them in the Chim/Aimed/Arcane/Steady priority, and good dps flies out of my hands.

Ret pally at range really. We even now have righteous vengeance (whatever it's called) that dots for 30% of the crit.


Point being, arguing about spec difficulty in wrath is pointless, because all 3 are easy if you've not got a broom for a brain.

[Balduvian]

Yeah, no one cares.

You're a Deathknight.
Your opinion doesn't count.

[Melonberry]

You know, I heard this strange rumor. You can respec either survival OR marksman...and not be horrible.

[Maxisawesome]

You know, I heard this strange rumor. You can respec either survival OR marksman...and not be horrible.

Wat?! This is madness!

[Kaeskalol]

For much of TBC survivial was a joke (all it really did was buff hunter melee which is pointless anyway).

LOL

I don't know what raid content you did, but WAAAAY back when in TBC, during fights like Brutallus and such, you *needed* a survival hunter for the debuff of Expose Weakness. Why? Because the AP debuff was huge, and on a lot of fights it was a DPS race. If your raid was melee heavy, you'd want a Survival hunter, period.

Let's say Shade of Akama. You could have any old hunter drop a Frost trap on the adds (pre-nerf) and be done with it, or you could have a Survival hunter drop one, root them in place, and have a group AoE them down before they even got CLOSE to the Shade.

Survival in endgame guilds was important, because it helped boost raid DPS by a significant margin.

As is, there are BM hunters that do 5, 6k DPS, thusly proving that while not as high as Marksmanship (lol, 14k killshots) or Survival, they aren't quite as bad off as they were just a few patches ago.

Though I still hate facing off against a zoo cleave team. Ugh... Tunnelvision, gogo! At least I go run into the occasional huntard without a weapon chain. Mmm, Dismantle...

[Lysah]

Uh...
oh i get it you're trolling that makes sense

lol.
Although this post was funny, you're still an asshat. BM has shorter cooldowns than MM/SV, so you can't even bring the cooldown shit into the argument or you lose by default. The rotation is the exact same intensity of MM (three buttons). So BM is already tougher, but let's add in the fact that a BM hunter needs his pet ALWAYS on the focus target or he starts losing huge damage. Mimiron phase 3? Attacking the head? Pet standing below it like a fucking retard? You're out 2k DPS. MM and SV? You're out almost nothing, your damage is 90% you anyway. BM hunters MUST MUST MUST spend more time looking at their pet than their hunter. As mentioned, the best BM setups switch to beast for BW and back, use KC during cobra strikes, use BW at the beginning of a quick shots proc, among other shit MM and SV don't even realize BMs can do because they're so tunnel visioned into a spec elitist jerks told them was good. As MM or SV I can watch TV or play CoD4 while I DPS and top the charts, so I have to say, BM is not the easiest spec by far.

[Vulcanreborn]

lol.
Although this post was funny, you're still an asshat. BM has shorter cooldowns than MM/SV, so you can't even bring the cooldown shit into the argument or you lose by default. The rotation is the exact same intensity of MM (three buttons). So BM is already tougher, but let's add in the fact that a BM hunter needs his pet ALWAYS on the focus target or he starts losing huge damage. Mimiron phase 3? Attacking the head? Pet standing below it like a fucking retard? You're out 2k DPS. MM and SV? You're out almost nothing, your damage is 90% you anyway. BM hunters MUST MUST MUST spend more time looking at their pet than their hunter. As mentioned, the best BM setups switch to beast for BW and back, use KC during cobra strikes, use BW at the beginning of a quick shots proc, among other shit MM and SV don't even realize BMs can do because they're so tunnel visioned into a spec elitist jerks told them was good. As MM or SV I can watch TV or play CoD4 while I DPS and top the charts, so I have to say, BM is not the easiest spec by far.

sorry to link the lot but meh, Icey kindly STFU...I played BM endgame prebc bc and now wotlk only recently went survival, BM is easy much like survival AND mm, all specs still require pet management oh and cooldown management MM not so much since you got a few tricks for those but you still plan em over a fight...so please don't go straight out and say BM isn't easy..it is easy all specs are easy, we just make it look harder then it really is
oh and if your pet is standing around like an idiot on phase 3 mimiron you sir are the asshat!

[luke_lol]

I miss the old cookie cutter 41/20/00 specc. I want BM back!

You obviously didn't play BM enough.

Being a hunter that has played for 3 years with my hunter as main and played through the entire of TBC as BM I'm glad they nerfed it and and I hope they keep nerfing it so I never have to go that shitty one button spec ever again.

It was beyond boring, MM and Surv have some life to them, please stop being a noob this thread made me rage inside.

[luke_lol]

Let's say Shade of Akama. You could have any old hunter drop a Frost trap on the adds (pre-nerf) and be done with it, or you could have a Survival hunter drop one, root them in place, and have a group AoE them down before they even got CLOSE to the Shade.

(lol, 14k killshots)

1) Shade of Akama was like the chess encounter of BT.

2) I think you mean 20k+.

[sicness]

lol.
Although this post was funny, you're still an asshat. BM has shorter cooldowns than MM/SV, so you can't even bring the cooldown shit into the argument or you lose by default. The rotation is the exact same intensity of MM (three buttons). So BM is already tougher, but let's add in the fact that a BM hunter needs his pet ALWAYS on the focus target or he starts losing huge damage. Mimiron phase 3? Attacking the head? Pet standing below it like a fucking retard? You're out 2k DPS. MM and SV? You're out almost nothing, your damage is 90% you anyway. BM hunters MUST MUST MUST spend more time looking at their pet than their hunter. As mentioned, the best BM setups switch to beast for BW and back, use KC during cobra strikes, use BW at the beginning of a quick shots proc, among other shit MM and SV don't even realize BMs can do because they're so tunnel visioned into a spec elitist jerks told them was good. As MM or SV I can watch TV or play CoD4 while I DPS and top the charts, so I have to say, BM is not the easiest spec by far.

Acting like other specs of hunters don't have to do the same exact pet management is asinine, pets are important to those specs as well and does impact dps so any hunter worth his weight in a raid will care about his pet. You'll still time your pets ability usage with trinkets/bloodlust. In regards to cool downs, the other two specs use more than steady shot and arcane shot and that's what makes them somewhat more complex due to a priority system while also maintaining the other normal cool downs to be used. In my opinion, marksmen does have a slight edge in skill needed simply because of readiness resetting all of those cool downs and knowing when best to use it for the encounter.

Stop acting like people have no idea what they're doing just because they're not the spec you claim to be the most complex. None of this game is hard and can be easily done by someone who has the capacity to read information online for 10 minutes.

[Lysah]

Acting like other specs of hunters don't have to do the same exact pet management is asinine, pets are important to those specs as well and does impact dps so any hunter worth his weight in a raid will care about his pet. You'll still time your pets ability usage with trinkets/bloodlust. In regards to cool downs, the other two specs use more than steady shot and arcane shot and that's what makes them somewhat more complex due to a priority system while also maintaining the other normal cool downs to be used. In my opinion, marksmen does have a slight edge in skill needed simply because of readiness resetting all of those cool downs and knowing when best to use it for the encounter.

Stop acting like people have no idea what they're doing just because they're not the spec you claim to be the most complex. None of this game is hard and can be easily done by someone who has the capacity to read information online for 10 minutes.

MM takes the most skill?
Gear;
Stack armor pen

Rotation;
Stack armor pen

Cooldown usage;
Stack armor pen

In all seriousness,
CS > AiS > SS > SS > SS > SS > repeat
Takes zero brain capactiy. You literally toss your brain out the window and mash the same three buttons the whole fight, and they have just the right cooldowns so that that order NEVER CHANGES! YAY! Guess what, you used to be able to macro all of these together, and HOLY SHIT, ITS TBC BM ALL OVER AGAIN! As for readiness, you use rapid fire when heroism is called, when it drops and CS/AiS are down, you readiness, re-use RF, and re-start rotation. Then, the rest of the fight is just spamming rotation, as your cooldowns are used. Grats, you did 8k DPS, you're UNFUCKINGSTOPPABLE. Not.

Your opinions don't count if they're horribly, horribly wrong. Saying MM takes skill isn't an opinion, it's fucking lunacy. SV actually requires you to be awake, but it's still just smashing whatever is on cooldown.

Realize this, the hunter part of being a hunter can be done by any shit-for-brains player out there. The pet part is where people like you do 3k DPS as BM and tell people like me that it must suck because you couldn't do the 7k DPS other BMs can. Because the pet part of MM and SV is so minimal (10% of your DPS or less), you can fuck around with, let it die, not rez it, shit, I bet you could leave it on passive and just have it for furious howl and still do 8k. Because the hunter part is easy, the hunter specs are easy, and that's why you see little variation between the damage output of good hunters.

If you read nothing else, read this (here, I'll even make it big for you)
If you read nothing else, read this:
If you want to tell me that BM isn't hard, I put to you this challenge. One way to shut me up once and for all, prove that you have a bigger penis, steal my job, my wife, my retirement plan, my house, and bask in the eternal glory of winning an argument against someone way more intelligent than yourself.

Go to your raid, take your best composition, your best players, your best gear, your best consumables. Switch to beastmaster spec, use your best pet, go to your best fights, and record your DPS. If you can do 7-8k+ DPS, I will admit BM is easy. If not;

Shut. The. Fuck. Up. You're a terrible player. Don't tell me BM is easy when you haven't tried it since TBC. There is a far cry from a MM/SV average player and a *good* BM hunter. Please, do prove me wrong about BM.