Hard Modes vs. Heroic Modes

[Niisama]

Heroic vs. Hard Mode

So having recently gotten back into the swing of things and raiding ToC in a guild that is 2/5 25-man ToC Heroic, I started to realize a fundamental flaw with the current system. It forces players to play the SAME EXACT FIGHTS 2-4 times a week, with little difference. This of course is ridiculously boring to anyone that has gone through it for a few weeks. Having done Naxx but skipped Ulduar having only gone back from time to time with friends, and having done Hard Mode's a handful of times.

By the numbers you currently fight the same 5 bosses each week, just 4 seperate times. After having only done this for a month and a half I'm already quite tired of fighting these bastards. I know there is no way that everyone is happy with the system, so I'd like to hear peoples thoughts. Do you guys think Hard Modes are better, or Heroic Modes?

My Opinion:
I think Hard Modes are a more sound option. The logic being that it doesn't force you to fight the same boss with very little alteration. For example, Hard Mode Freya and Yogg made the fight infinitely more difficult, the different between Normal Beast and Heroic Beasts on the other hand is basically just that they have more hp, and do more damage; Gormok does much more damage and has more hp as do snobolds, Worms have more hp and do more damage, Icehowl has more hp and you don't gain the speed buff on knockback. This means that outside of the increased damage output, the actual encounter remains unchanged. When you look at Hard Modes though, in almost all cases they changed the mechanics of the encounter drastically. The other thing was that it felt as though Hard Modes were more of a test of players skill, requiring you to have better co-ordination rather than just better gear.

Another reason I see Hard Modes as a better alternative is because of the way to Emblem\Badge system now works. Assuming you were to do the Daily Heroic every day, 10\25 Ony, 10\25 VoA, 10\25\10h\25h ToC, you could gain up to 84 Emblems of Triumph each week, and 336 each month. That means that after 2 weeks you would have enough Emblems for basically an entire 232 T9 Set. This means that raiders capable of clearing everything after roughly a month will have all of the Emblem gear easily, and most gear for their other specs. Even if you were to drop Heroic ToC runs from the setup you'd still be looking at 54 each week and 216 each month. What this means is that they are either forced to create really high item costs for Emblem rewards, as I feel it is right now, leave them low and make the gear very accessible. But that's another discussion entirely.

Hard Modes basically offer raiders who are interested in harder content the chance to do it and gain additional higher level loot, without giving them too many bonuses and making the content get very boring, very fast.

Anyways, I am interested to hear the input on this one.

[notasgudasyou]

Heroic vs. Hard Mode

It forces players to play the SAME EXACT FIGHTS 2-4 times a week, with little difference.

HOLY CRAP HE'S SMART

[Vulcanreborn]

HOLY CRAP HE'S SMART

unlike you featherbrain, however its not to bad...I don't mind toc tbh...it may be boring but its a decent raid and and and it has kobolds! and scarabs! and 4armed women! so it must be good, yup no question bout it.

[notasgudasyou]

unlike you featherbrain, however its not to bad...I don't mind toc tbh...it may be boring but its a decent raid and and and it has kobolds! and scarabs! and 4armed women! so it must be good, yup no question bout it.

no enchanting mats for you =(

[Vulcanreborn]

no enchanting mats for you =(

ouch bro...very ouch. but seriously toc isn't to bad cept for the DCs why is everyone so pissed off bout it? its like being in arena...against an AI!

[Bowen]

The hard mode system is going to be the death of my guild, we cleared tbc together with 3 bosses in SWP, and all in wotlk but with long timers leaving wow or stopping raiding there just is not enough talent to recruit from to fill the gaps for hard mode standard of performance, so it is currently a one hour clear of toc 25, 2 groups of 10man toc, voa and ony and that's it we are a mere 3 day guild which is plenty and always has been but seriously the above barely lasts us 1 day.

[notasgudasyou]

i dont mind it, sure it does get a little repetative after a while, especially doing it weekly with 2-3 toons...

but there's other things there to break up the cycle, Uld hard modes are still on the cards for progression, no doubt everyone in a serious raiding guild wants to at least see Algalon in game and not on a video...

[notasgudasyou]

The hard mode system is going to be the death of my guild, we cleared tbc together with 3 bosses in SWP, and all in wotlk but with long timers leaving wow or stopping raiding there just is not enough talent to recruit from to fill the gaps for hard mode standard of performance, so it is currently a one hour clear of toc 25, 2 groups of 10man toc, voa and ony and that's it we are a mere 3 day guild which is plenty and always has been but seriously the above barely lasts us 1 day.

maybe you guys should add in a weekly 25 ulduar clear, with hardmodes if necessary? i know you said its going to be the death of your guild, but really, there's a few hard modes out there you could easily do as long as everyone knows how to move...

[Bowen]

Yup we were doing that and doing a few of the Ulduar ones successfully, but the devs kind of shafted the moral on that one because they are worth nothing now.

[notasgudasyou]

they're not worth nothing, you still get the drake from the meta so it's worth doing them even if only for that...

even get your 10man teams doing them if you think it'll help out?

my guild only raids 3 nights a week and we spread out our raiding around those 3 nights fairly evenly...

[Vulcanreborn]

they're not worth nothing, you still get the drake from the meta so it's worth doing them even if only for that...

even get your 10man teams doing them if you think it'll help out?

my guild only raids 3 nights a week and we spread out our raiding around those 3 nights fairly evenly...

^^^

[Elgrosesti]

You don't have to do it 4 times a week. You can just show up for the heroic run and don't go in the regular one. If your guild doesn't wanna go, just don't go. You shouldn't need emblems of triumph and loot at this point. Clearing the 25 Heroic doesn't require gear, It's all about having a minimum of skills.

[Jotab]

Hard modes are infinately more fun and challenging than heroic modes. Hard modes are the same boss, but changing the strategy drastically.

[notasgudasyou]

You don't have to do it 4 times a week. You can just show up for the heroic run and don't go in the regular one. If your guild doesn't wanna go, just don't go. You shouldn't need emblems of triumph and loot at this point. Clearing the 25 Heroic doesn't require gear, It's all about having a minimum of skills.

hehe i do it on my other toons for the badges so i can sell the crusader orb i can get from it - 1 clear of 10/25 norm = 15 badges each = 1 crusader orb = 1.1k gold on my server... that's my raiding cash right there...

[FireBorne]

Hardmode Hodir and Thorim were just basically kill him before x amount of time...very fail. ToC is actually hard, Ulduar is so lol my guild doesnt even want to waste time doing Algalon because no one is interested in the fight,i have tried to get a 10man Algy going for a long while but no one is remotely interested. Heroic>"Hardmodes" loot is better also.

[La]

Some hardmodes are neat and unique, while MOST share the same things in common.

They`re exactly like the reg. but with double the health, double the damage, double the damage done by spells, the spells cast are casted faster and there`s more of x of whatever is being cast, and of course.. an enrage timer where if you don`t put out 932845295829 damage in 3 minutes you DIE.

So yeah, I miss TBC where the boss was THE BOSS. Where killing Archimonde, or RoS or bosses that required a lot of time, effort and skill to kill without having to have a hardmode was considered a realm forum worthy-ish post.. that was fun. I mean I used to raid as a hardcore raider and this shit is just stupid to me, it`s all too reliant on damage.

[notasgudasyou]

i'll say again, if you're in a guild that hasnt completed the meta achievements for ulduar hardmodes it's worth doing for that alone...

noone knows when blizzard will pull the pin on the drakes from the meta achievements so tbh i'd rather do them all asap over waiting for ages cause noone wants to put in the effort only to find out that OH SHIT I CANT GET THE DRAKE ANYMORE (kgo removing naxx drakes in 3.1)

[Vulcanreborn]

i'll say again, if you're in a guild that hasnt completed the meta achievements for ulduar hardmodes it's worth doing for that alone...

noone knows when blizzard will pull the pin on the drakes from the meta achievements so tbh i'd rather do them all asap over waiting for ages cause noone wants to put in the effort only to find out that OH SHIT I CANT GET THE DRAKE ANYMORE (kgo removing naxx drakes in 3.1)

so true+bronze drake>iron bound imo.

[Niisama]

I also miss the days of TBC (having done up through SWP) where the boss was simply the boss, and there was no easy mode or hard mode or heroic, it was just the boss. With Hard Modes they also add a hint of logic; why are they more powerful given these circumstances?

Hard Mode Freya - Keepers make her more powerful.
Hard Mode Thorim - Sif is another boss doing damage and here presence increases his hp and damage.
Hard Mode FL - Towers increase the amount of abilities he has from outside sources.
Heroic Anub - ??? It's Heroic!
Heroic Beasts - ??? It's Heroic!
Heroic Jaraxxus - ??? It's Heroic!

[notasgudasyou]

i do believe the jaraxxus encounter on heroic is a little different in the sense you have to kill the portals the bitch comes from, rather than just killing the bitch... so it is a slightly different encounter on heroic mode rather than just giving everything more health and damage...