About ICC "Hard Mode-switch"

[Youallfail]

Assuming everything goes as planned, you can switch it back and forth as much as you like. Encounter 1 on hard, 2 on normal, 3 on hard, 4 on normal, etc.

Ok nice.

In effect it works out similar to Ulduar but it's with a much more clear method in the UI as opposed to the fairly confusing process of figuring out some encounter mechanics just to activate it.

WTF? Figuring some encounter mechanics LOL when you could (and im sure everyone raiding ulduar did) read exactly how tu turn on the hard modes. Why does blizz makes this game so arcade, what the fuck was confusing about Ulduar style hard modes. I think it was much nicer and RPG-like way to make it, you had Freya that was given power by elders if you didnt defeat them. FL that you disabled 1-4 of his defense systems to make him easier. Mimiron that went freak when you destroyed his beautiful work Spark of Imagination, XT that had combat limitations turned off when his hearth got broken. I think only Hodir could be pain in the ass .. as sometimes you killed him just a sec too late and there was nothing you could do to try hard mode again. but still there was some logic behind the hard mode version(although the hodir reason was kinda pulled out of ass) every hardmode in Ulduar had some logic reason. Than came TOC, hard modes activated by... just activating them.. kinda stupid imo but i thought .. hmm filler content. Now they want to do the same (or similar) crap in ICC, why? Ulduar style hard modes could only be confusing for complete retards.. looks like blizz thinks most of wow players are complete retards. (armor penetration is sooooo mathy)

It might be different in the end, not so stupid as in TOC ... i strongly hope it will, but interface based hard mode switching just isnt my cup of tea :-(, it feels like playing instant action arcade game to me.

Sry for bad english im not native.

[seam]

Alot of people didn't like the way Ulduar worked for some reason.

I personally think the Ulduar way is the best, buuuuuut who knows.

[Waffle]

I believe the style of 'activating' the hardmode for bosses was changed so that players could make a 'normal' run and still be able to 'try' hardmodes, instead of locking themselves out for that reset if normal turned out to be too easy or so.

But I do agree on the "how to start the hardmode" part, in ulduar it kinda made sense how and why the bosses entered hardmodes apart from hodir...
So I guess... what they could do is... have like...
Normal 10 man
Normal 10 man with additional harder mode
HC 10 man
HC 10 man with additional harder mode

But then again, it's probably too much and not likely to happen, since it'd all end up with achievements saying "Complete blabla on harder hardmode while entering hardmode on heroic version of the 25 man hardmode"...

[Lorgran]

WTF? Figuring some encounter mechanics LOL when you could (and im sure everyone raiding ulduar did) read exactly how tu turn on the hard modes. Why does blizz makes this game so arcade, what the fuck was confusing about Ulduar style hard modes. I think it was much nicer and RPG-like way to make it, you had Freya that was given power by elders if you didnt defeat them. FL that you disabled 1-4 of his defense systems to make him easier. Mimiron that went freak when you destroyed his beautiful work Spark of Imagination, XT that had combat limitations turned off when his hearth got broken. I think only Hodir could be pain in the ass .. as sometimes you killed him just a sec too late and there was nothing you could do to try hard mode again. but still there was some logic behind the hard mode version(although the hodir reason was kinda pulled out of ass) every hardmode in Ulduar had some logic reason. Than came TOC, hard modes activated by... just activating them.. kinda stupid imo but i thought .. hmm filler content. Now they want to do the same (or similar) crap in ICC, why? Ulduar style hard modes could only be confusing for complete retards.. looks like blizz thinks most of wow players are complete retards. (armor penetration is sooooo mathy)

I can see how some of the hard modes are confusing, and it's nice to see the OP saying how easy it is with hardmode-activation and then get a few of them wrong himself.

Flame Leviathan: Activate defenses, destroy towers you don't want up or destroy them all, or don't activate defenses and have no towers up. Two different ways to get the same effect. You can't go "oh crap, we activated wrong hard mode (or not hard enough)" after reaching Leviathan, as the towers don't rebuild

XT-002: "Get the heart down, watch out for adds! Lets kill them so they don't reach him"
Wait? We have to kill the heart for hardmode, but what about the adds?

Iron Council is fairly straight forward, normal kill order-activation

Hodir is fine, dps race

Thorim, quite oppsite, can be confusing how not to get hard mode (and horribly boring when you overgear the fight and just have to stand around for a minute just waiting)

Freya is fine, kill Elders or leave them up

Mimiron is fine, push the "DON'T PUSH THIS BUTTON"-button

Vezax is fine, don't destroy the clouds

Yogg-Saron, can be a bit like Leviathan.. talk to the wrong Keeper and you're screwed.. and we all know how fun people think it is to talk to things they shouldn't (AQ20 anyone?). Other then that it's fairly straight forward.

And tbh, there are no hard modes in TotC, there's only a heroic version of each. You wouldn't call Heroic Violet Hold for "Hardmode Violet Hold", would you?

[Nassam]

Just a question on the "topic" of this hard mode switch:

do blizzard differentiate "hard mode" and "heroic mode" ?

Because, IG, for the TOC there is a "normal mode" and "a heroic mode" with two different links but there aren't any "real" hard modes (just achievements).

So is this gona give something like:
2 links "normal mode" (10/25) with possibility to switch to hard mode on "selected bosses"
2 links "heroic mode" (10/25) with possibility to switch to hard mode on "selected bosses"

or more like:
1 link 10man normal with possibility to switch to "hardmode" (heroic?) on selected bosses
1 link 25man normal with possibility to switch to "hardmode" (heroic?) on selected bosses
no "heroic" link for the full raid (different from normal link)

??

[zaneosak]

The main complaint I have is that there doesnt appear to be seperate lockouts which is kind of disappointing.

If you are gonna do "heroic" modes then use the different lockouts. And I do agree that hard modes by just adding more hit points and higher dmg are very unsatisfying.

[bg]

The main complaint I have is that there doesnt appear to be seperate lockouts which is kind of disappointing.

If you are gonna do "heroic" modes then use the different lockouts. And I do agree that hard modes by just adding more hit points and higher dmg are very unsatisfying.

I prefer the BC method where fights had no modes and were just that hard to start with personally.


As a raider who does all 4 ToC instances per week i have to say that i despise it. Fighting the EXACT same boss FOUR times a week is incredibly boring. Separate lockouts for normal and hard modes is not fun. If we have to choose, please use the Ulduar method, having to meet a requirement during an encounter to trigger a hard mode in my opinion is the most fun of the current methods. Simply turning a switch seems anticlimactic.

[Vakir]

WTF? Figuring some encounter mechanics LOL when you could (and im sure everyone raiding ulduar did) read exactly how tu turn on the hard modes. Why does blizz makes this game so arcade, what the fuck was confusing about Ulduar style hard modes. I think it was much nicer and RPG-like way to make it, you had Freya that was given power by elders if you didnt defeat them. FL that you disabled 1-4 of his defense systems to make him easier. Mimiron that went freak when you destroyed his beautiful work Spark of Imagination, XT that had combat limitations turned off when his hearth got broken.

The reason they did away with that is because it thematically doesn't make sense.

Why does Freya's Sigil mysteriously vanish simply because one of her elders died? Why does Mimiron's materialize just because I clicked a button? Answers of "because it's a game" are a fucking copout. The RPG aspect of it can't be one sided, and there's frankly not much rationale behind it.

Same thing with Flame Leviathan's towers. The story of it is that you "accidentally" active his defenses, but why would you want to? Let alone keep them up? Why should one arbitrarily gimp themselves? It's gimmicky and ridiculous.

This way it's just more controlled and you can choose at will whether to try it rather than do something gimmicky and obnoxious. It also does away with some things like Elder/Drake type fights where you can decide to try heroic, fail at it a bit, do practice on normal, and then still have the ability to do heroic again. With Elders/Drakes, you can't do that. Killing an Elder or Drake shafts you.

The main complaint I have is that there doesnt appear to be seperate lockouts which is kind of disappointing.

Do you realize just how much 48 bosses is, if you're to go off four different lockouts?

It would be too much content. I like this system better for large raids. If they ever put in small raids like Collisseum again, they should do the 4 lockout system for those to partially compensate.

[Shiira]

The reason they did away with that is because it thematically doesn't make sense.

Why does Freya's Sigil mysteriously vanish simply because one of her elders died? Why does Mimiron's materialize just because I clicked a button? Answers of "because it's a game" are a fucking copout. The RPG aspect of it can't be one sided, and there's frankly not much rationale behind it.

If you had read all of the stuff at the archivum that explains the situation with the keepers and algalon then you would know.

And besides, "because it's a game" is a perfectly valid reason.

[Tootsweet]

The reason they did away with that is because it thematically doesn't make sense.

Why does Freya's Sigil mysteriously vanish simply because one of her elders died? Why does Mimiron's materialize just because I clicked a button? Answers of "because it's a game" are a fucking copout.

Crystallized Fire... It is impossible. Its a FUCKING GAME!!!!

[Soaringbiscuit]

You understand, of course, that when they say switching between normal and heroic, they mean the health of the boss/his damage and the items that drop, not a leave-the-elders up style of thing, although I assume bosses will have that too.

[Vakir]

If you had read all of the stuff at the archivum that explains the situation with the keepers and algalon then you would know.

"So and so is linked to Elders!" is not an explanation. I've seen that event many times, thank you.

You understand, of course, that when they say switching between normal and heroic, they mean the health of the boss/his damage and the items that drop, not a leave-the-elders up style of thing, although I assume bosses will have that too.

They can't really have both. They might have achievements, but not both a hard and heroic mode. Heroic = Hard for raids now.

[Avey]

My two cents...

all of this 5, 10, 25 man, normal, hard, heroic crap is getting OLD.

I was fine with normal and heroic. Let the casuals, baddies, scrubs, lazies (not putting these all in the same category, I understand casuals =/= any of the others)
but anyway, let the non-hardcores, see the content and enjoy the game with half-decent, astheticaly pleasing gear.

then have heroic just rape-your-ass hard, with better gear and maybe a few little here and theres so that the hardcores...

A - get better, more distinguishable gear (to stop the QQ)

B - get to see a few little extras, maybe a foreshadow or conclusion (to stop the QQ)

C - fell hardcore again (also to stop the QQ)

D - can truly set themselves apart.

Make HEROIC actually effin mean something, oh and give HEROICS gear you can't buy from a damn vendor.

but the way it is now, hard mode this, heroic that, 5,10,25 blah blah blah blah blah....its quite absurd, its all so easy it doesnt even seem right.

My opinion. nothin else. nothing more.

[mackmustard]

And I do agree that hard modes by just adding more hit points and higher dmg are very unsatisfying.

c/s

I hope for HM Arthas he has like a totally different form from regular that he turns into at like 20% or so. OR like an additional phase.

[jarell88]

Personally, i prefered the ulduar hard modes, as well as sarth +3, compared to the toc.

The reason being that activating the hard modes would throw in a completely new dimension to the fight that people had to adapt to and learn.

Lets recap:
Sarth+3: speedburn on all drakes, coordinate cooldowns, dodging lava walls, fireballs, voidzones, while trying not to maim yourself on that aura.

FL+4: Introducing crazy lazer pewpew beams of doom! Which added massive fun to the fight, especially prenerf.

Xt: Granted, this was fairly simple, what with just nuking the add spawned every light bomb.

IC: do i even need to say it? Each p3 was completely different.

Hodir: granted, another simple one, with nothing about the fight being changed.

Thorim: Sif. Her presence changed the positioning of everyone in the fight, as well as making MC's on the adds possibly vital for lesser geared guilds.

Freya +3: Roots, sunbeams, ground tremors, while fighting buffed adds.

Mimiron: OH GOD THE FIRE.

Vezax: Do i even need to say how having no mana regen changes the fight? Oh yeah, animus was a massive pain.

Yogg: i conceed, nothing much changes when you remover the elders. everyone just needs to not be retarded and push out massive dps.

As you can see, most hard modes changed the fight dramatically. Now, as for totc heroic...

Beasts: more health, more damage. Oh, and we took out a minor speed buff. In short, nothing really changed.

Jaraxxus: More HP, more damage... oh we gotta burst a portal. that's the only other significant change to the fight.

FC: exactly the same. Oops, they hit harder, heal more, and have more health...

Twin valks: hit harder, blah blah, oh, and a debuff for which the typical tactic is to heal through.

Anub: This is probably the only fight which we can see siginificant difference in the fight mechanics, with the 4 adds shadow striking, and the reduction in ice avaliable, and also with adds continuing to spawn in P3.

In short, if they wanna put heroic modes in, do it like ulduar's style, where the fight actually changes siginificantly. Don't be like totc, where the general rule is "bigger numbers".

[xebtria]

So is this gona give something like:
2 links "normal mode" (10/25) with possibility to switch to hard mode on "selected bosses"
2 links "heroic mode" (10/25) with possibility to switch to hard mode on "selected bosses"

if THIS would happen, this would be definitaly the final trigger for me to quit this game. holy crap, 8 fucking versions of one instance? are you kidding me?
for me, It's already something like "too much" because I'm part of some not-so-hardcore-guild, and we currently have progress on TogC25 (actually failing because of the common movement and "actual-performance/gear-potential" problems, but thats another story)... so we raid 1 day ulduar for our pally to finally get legendary, 1 day on ToC25 + ony + VoA (yay, free t9.25 and 245-loot which isn't that worse compared to ToC loot), and - depending on applications - 1 or 2 days progress on TogC25. and then there is ToC10 (which is FFA raid, so no guild organized, no dkp, no whatever) - 30 mins - TogC10, well.... another 3-4hrs because actually 10-Anubarak-hc is still quite challenging for us "normal" raiders.

tu sum up, 4 days 25s, 1 day 10s, actually the same fucking instance 4 times per lockout. because that's already annoying as hell, I quit the 10s and so only 25s for me.... So PLEASE DEAR GOD, don't introduce the 8-versions-idea. I REALLY hope, that there's just a 25 and a 10 man version and you can switch per interface for normal and hardmode versions. only (but then with no restrictions) possible while out of combat and difficulty does not apply to trash. or whatever, I wouldn't mind, if it also would apply to trash (maybe more reputation, more/better trashloot, whatever)....

[Vakir]

WHY THE FUCK IS NO ONE READING WHAT I'M SAYING?

TWO lockouts, like Ulduar.

NO gimmicky activation of hard modes like Thorim or whatever. You simply select on the fucking UI whether you want to fight the heroic or normal version of that boss.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...1&pageNo=6#113
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...1&pageNo=7#125

This is confirmed stuff, people.

[kabshiel]

I prefer the in-encounter activation method more than the UI option. It just feels more elegant that way.

[ewhenn]

Personally, i prefered the ulduar hard modes, as well as sarth +3, compared to the toc.

The reason being that activating the hard modes would throw in a completely new dimension to the fight that people had to adapt to and learn.

Lets recap:
Sarth+3: speedburn on all drakes, coordinate cooldowns, dodging lava walls, fireballs, voidzones, while trying not to maim yourself on that aura.

FL+4: Introducing crazy lazer pewpew beams of doom! Which added massive fun to the fight, especially prenerf.

Xt: Granted, this was fairly simple, what with just nuking the add spawned every light bomb.

IC: do i even need to say it? Each p3 was completely different.

Hodir: granted, another simple one, with nothing about the fight being changed.

Thorim: Sif. Her presence changed the positioning of everyone in the fight, as well as making MC's on the adds possibly vital for lesser geared guilds.

Freya +3: Roots, sunbeams, ground tremors, while fighting buffed adds.

Mimiron: OH GOD THE FIRE.

Vezax: Do i even need to say how having no mana regen changes the fight? Oh yeah, animus was a massive pain.

Yogg: i conceed, nothing much changes when you remover the elders. everyone just needs to not be retarded and push out massive dps.

As you can see, most hard modes changed the fight dramatically. Now, as for totc heroic...

Beasts: more health, more damage. Oh, and we took out a minor speed buff. In short, nothing really changed.

Jaraxxus: More HP, more damage... oh we gotta burst a portal. that's the only other significant change to the fight.

FC: exactly the same. Oops, they hit harder, heal more, and have more health...

Twin valks: hit harder, blah blah, oh, and a debuff for which the typical tactic is to heal through.

Anub: This is probably the only fight which we can see siginificant difference in the fight mechanics, with the 4 adds shadow striking, and the reduction in ice avaliable, and also with adds continuing to spawn in P3.

In short, if they wanna put heroic modes in, do it like ulduar's style, where the fight actually changes siginificantly. Don't be like totc, where the general rule is "bigger numbers".

^This.

[Hossman]

The only Ulduar hard mode that was a pain in the ass was Hodir, can lose hard mode by 1 second then have to wait a week for the lockout, that was crap.

Same deal with Malygos 6 min.

They just need to make the raid instance difficult. You want to see content, go do 10 man.