Scourge Strike change in 3.3. Bad class design.

[elseagoat]

The change to Scourge Strike introduces the following problems. But first, lets talk about its current problems.

Current:
1) Scourge Strike does damage roughly equal to two Blood Strikes, meaning Reaping is not taken in an already very bloated tree.
2) Scourge Strike does not do enough damage in PvP to qualify as what many would call “viable burst,” and thus forcing Uh DKs to pair with a Mortal Strike class or a class that can provide on demand burst to be viable in arenas (aside from Shadowcleave, one of the few remaining viable DK comps).
3) Scourge Strikes already low, but arguably acceptable damage is heavily penalized by disease dispels, which is why many DKs have resorted to creating builds that focus on high RP generation for Death Coil and use only disease applicators in leu of FU attacks because it increases disease uptime and does not rely on keeping diseases up as much. DKs do not play Shadowfrost because it is overpowered, this is a myth, they play it because it covers the massive limitations created by the totem stomp change and the Scourge Strike damage nerf.

These are the problems created by the 3.3 incarnation of Scourge Strike. I will back this with some math done by Dracosz of Executus.
1) A larger percentage of Scourge Strike damage is reliant on maintaining disease uptime. This is a problem when we have trouble keeping diseases up even with a wacked out build that only uses FU runes for disease applicators.
2) The Scourge Strike change makes SS benefit 100% from Armor Penetration, which accomplishes the goal stated by Blizzard. However, this seems to contradict the idea that Armor Penetration is disappearing on gear completely with the release of Cataclysm. This means that with the release of Cataclysm, Scourge Strike will simply be penalized by armor with no gain since we will not be able to obtain ArPen, and I highly doubt Unholy of all three of the specs will be receiving Armor Penetration as a Mastery bonus.
3) Scourge Strike does more damage in PvE now. This makes Reaping worth it, but unfortunately, Unholy is bloated and finding the points for Reaping isn’t exactly easy, and Death Knights arguably did not need help in PvE.
4) Scourge Strike does less damage against Mail armor and higher in PvP. This is a nerf to an ability that was critting for 4k with 3 diseases up. Death Knights arguably do not need a PvP damage nerf. First sentence is fact, second is opinion.
5) Scourge Strike does more damage against leather and cloth wearers. Casters are not our problems in arenas.
6) There are likely to be a large number of detrimental bugs with this change. For example, I am willing to bet the Shadow Damage portion of the ability will do zero damage if the Physical Hit is absorbed by a Power Word: Shield or Ice Barrier.

Here is some math to demonstrate the new 3.3 damage compared to the current damage.
Weapon Damage - 3000 (I like to work with 3000 because it shows up very clearly)
*NB I use 3 diseases as an assumption and I do NOT include Black Ice which would increase the damage on the PVP by 10%

Current Scourge Strike Mechanics

PVE
.78 * 3000 + 432 = 2772 damage no resilience non-mitigated
2772 * 2.3 = 6375.6 damage no resiliance crit non-mitigated

PVP
2772/1.15 = 2410.43 damage mitigated (resiliance)
6375.6/1.15/1.25 = 4435.2 damage mitigated crit (resiliance)

New Scourge Strike Mechanics (Presumably)

PVE

.5*1.2 = .6 (Coeffeicient for Scourge Strike Baseline Physical Damage)

.6*3000+452 = 2252 Damage
Bonus Shadow Damage = 2252 * .75
Total Non Crit New SS damage = 3941 Damage

Crit: 2252 * 2.3 = 5179 damage
Crit Bonus shadow Damage = 3884
Total Crit New SS damage = 9063

/* Work In Progress, I'm fine tuning a bit of this

PVP
// Assumes 15% Damage Reduction Passive from Resilience and 25% Crit Reduction from Resilience

PLATE HEAVY MITIGATION (65% Physical Reduction)
Initial Damage = .35 * 2252 = 788.2
Shadow Damage = 788.2*.75 = 591.15
Total Hit = 1379.35 (Factoring In Resilience)
Crit Damage = 1379.35*2.3/1.25 = 2538 Damage
Delta Hit:-1392.5
Delta Crit:-1897

PLATE/MAILW/SHIELD MITIGATION (50% Physical Reduction)
Initial Damage = .5 * 2252 = 1126 Damage
Shadow Damage = 1126*.75 = 844.5
Total Hit = 1713.48 (Factoring In Resilience)
Crit Damage = 1713.48*2.3/1.25 = 3152.8 Damage
Delta Hit: -696.52
Delta Crit: -1282.2

MAIL MITIGATION (40% Physical Reduction)
Initial Damage = .6 * 2252 = 1351.2 Damage
Shadow Damage = 1351.2*.75 = 1013.4
Total Hit = 2364.6 (Factoring In Resilience)
Crit Damage = 1713.48*2.3/1.25 = 4350.86 Damage
Delta Hit: -45.4
Delta Crit: 84.136

LEATHER MITGATION (30% Physical Reduction)
Initial Damage = .7*2252 = 1576.4
Shadow Damage = 1576.4*.75 = 1182.3 Damage
Total Hit = 2398.7/1.15
Crit Damage = 4413.92
Delta Hit
Delta Crit

CLOTH MITIGATION (20% MITIGATION)
Initial Damage = .8*2252 = 1801.6
Shadow Damage = 1351.2
Total Hit 2741.57
Crit Damage = 5044.48
Delta hit = +331.57
Delta Crit = +609.48

Please take this into consideration Devs. There are for more ways to make the ability more interesting that could be made in conjunction with this change or in conjunction with the current Scourge Strike.


Someone please cross post this in the Damage Dealing and Test Realm forums.

[hereticangel]

looks it "maybe" be spammble again?

Can see it does more damage now,hopefully it is to bring back the old unholy build

[Commander Melander]

QQ more

[Overlord Fordragon]

SS and Gargoyle need to swap in the tree

SS needs slightly more damage and a MS effect,

[elseagoat]

looks it "maybe" be spammble again?

Can see it does more damage now,hopefully it is to bring back the old unholy build

The new Scourge Strike is a nerf. Only difference in PvE now is that you will be sacrificing a few points in some DPS talent in order to pick up Reaping and will be using a Death Rune rotation, and in PvP, it is a flat out nerf.

Retarded Armor Penetration side effects when Cata hits and the stat gets removed.

QQ more

Waste of glucose imo.

SS and Gargoyle need to swap in the tree

SS needs slightly more damage and a MS effect,

No and no.

[emil0s]

[mikka]

use obli in pve ffs.
current ss is fine in pvp.

[Caeldeth]

Several classes have only 1 viable pvp spec..you have 3.... QQ more, your tears make me stronger...

[mikka]

show me some 2.5rated frost or blood dk ~.~

[Kaspar]

use obli in pve ffs.
current ss is fine in pvp.

That's utterly retarded.


I can't understand WHY Blizz is doing this. These shameless nerfs to the signature skill of the tree...

And to add insult to injury, they nerfed UHB EVEN MORE. It's, something like, 2% of my total DPS now, and it used to do up to 10%. And not to mention, it was a FANTASTIC ability when running old-world dungeons etc.

[mikka]

if obliterate scales better with full debuffs on teh bos/mob, why bother using it?
dont declare the state of the art pve uh as "utterly retarded"
ss in pvp works still very well, 8k~ still possible.
unholy tree isnt defined by one single ability btw, what about perma pet, ebon plaguebringer?

[Fenixdown]

Question. With the change to it's base damage now being related to weapon damage, will this basically make the unholy DPS setup of 3.2 (uholy/oblit) and the new DPS setup of 3.2.2 (unholy/SS) look for the same statistic setup with stacking armor penetration to increase DPS?

[mikka]

your diseases deathcoils, blood caked blade proccs and wandering plagues doent benefit from arpen, so i wont gem/stack it, but wouldnt avoid it either

[Proletariat]

fml

[Wingwraith]

That's utterly retarded.

I couldn't agree more.

I can't understand WHY Blizz is doing this. These shameless nerfs to the signature skill of the tree...

Because it was OP in pvp. The change they are making is a good idea if they get the numbers right, which I'm not confidant they will unfortunately. It solves the completely unmitigated shadow damage problem for pvp, while at the same time keeps SS at the level it needs to be for pve.

And to add insult to injury, they nerfed UHB EVEN MORE. It's, something like, 2% of my total DPS now, and it used to do up to 10%. And not to mention, it was a FANTASTIC ability when running old-world dungeons etc.

UB was way over budget of ~1% dps per talent point.

[kekoa]

Math looks legit. But its not confirming what ppl are saying on the PTR atm.

Word is it hitting slightly harder.

Might want to actually log on the PTR and do some real tests instead of just some random math.

Also to the QQ

If your still playing you should be use to the nerfs. Please stop acting like its the end of the world. Each time a patch hits ppl start saying "zomg its the end of dks. were done for. im bad i can no longer be carried by a op class"

Please just quit your dks so the rest of us can continue to make others QQ.

K thanks.

[elseagoat]

The math is legit. The current PTR build actually has a bugged version of Scourge Strike which actually does not do the shadow damage portion of the ability at all, meaning it hits slightly harder than Plague Strike (thanks to the 30% Scourge Strike damage boost from talents). So the reports that it is hitting harder are not valid and I honestly believe you made that up. The fact that it is bugged further validates claim number 6.

It WILL hit harder in PvE, which is fine, but we didn't really need a PvE DPS boost (which is why Unholy Blight got offset with a damage nerf I am guessing.)

The problem is that this is a PvP nerf for many reasons, and makes no sense whatsoever just to make the change so that Armor Penetration becomes more useful when the stat is getting deleted when Cataclysm comes out.

I am simply trying to make Blizzard aware of the problems that this "buff" creates. It is obvious Blizzard is trying to fix problems with Scourge Strike, but I think it should be obvious that they are trying to fix the wrong problems and doing it the wrong way. I just want Blizzard to be aware of this.

You cant blame a person for wanting the best gameplay experience possible for their class. But by all means, continue to bump this thread with "QQ more" replies.

[WorldTree]

Several classes have only 1 viable pvp spec..you have 3.... QQ more, your tears make me stronger...

I found this comment dumb.

So you get stronger by tears? Like how you are QQing about DK QQing?
So, like you can self level up all the time? (i am sure QQing isn't a rare occuring for you... )

And yet you still QQ about others? Does your thirst for tears knows no boundary?

[Mnightshammy]

hey guys, i know how much you love to QQ, so i put a QQ post in your QQ post so you can QQ while you QQ.

but seriously, i am liking the time they are putting into re-working unholy, we still have to wait for it to go Live, im in no rush.

[Nexus2089]

hey guys, i know how much you love to QQ, so i put a QQ post in your QQ post so you can QQ while you QQ.

but seriously, i am liking the time they are putting into re-working unholy, we still have to wait for it to go Live, im in no rush.

The kind of work they are putting in is on par with the work michael jackson had done to his face, its bad