Stronger, Faster, Pally-er

[Sanctity]

how does that page dispute what I have claimed about the priority rotation...

It states explicitly:

The 969 rotation can be mathematically proven to be the best possible TPS rotation

If that's not clear enough try this where there IS maths:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p496361
The only way HoW is a TPS gain is if you do it in place of holy shield which provides a large chuck of mitigation.
Unless what you are doing is 96969 you are doing less threat. Period.

EDIT: any claim of one of our abilities outscaling another at any currently relevant gear level is bogus. The only time this was relevent was back in naxx gear when, if the boss was below 20% and before you attained last laugh and if it was on its own (a lot of provisions), HoW was more threat than HotR.

[Legionas]

Im am asking have you tested it with your gear? There is a diffrence. Diffrent people will have diffrent TPS because they have diffrent stats. If you want to be scientific about it you need to have identical gear as the person doing the tests. Aslo, this person is doing the 6969 rotation. While doing this you you cannot judge how well another rotation is doing BECAUSE IT IS ONLY TESTING ONE ROTATION. therefore the point you are making is unscientific and invalid. and my average HoW is alot more that 2600 as stated on the test which means more agro generation (at this point it should be about damage ) mine is around 3k average is alot higher than the test. Cool testing is already done on things the community already knows. Do your own testing and your own math to find what works best for your gear setup. The test is under very specific parameters and anything outside thoughs could be considered not the same test.

TPS hmm lets calculate here using the stats

Concecration 9 second ability. 8785 divide by how many seconds the cooldown is. 8785/9 = 976.11

HoW 6 second abilit. 6373 divide by how many seconds the cooldown is. 6373/6 = 1062.16

Yeah it has less TPS.

Edit: I am willing to agree that the 6969 rotation is a good rotation before 20% but after 20% I think it falls apart.

[Sanctity]

At best your articulation of your argument is erratic. Mathematically, irrespective of your gear, unless your "priority" system is really 969 by another name you are doing LESS THREAT. how much maths do you want me to link at you?

I don't have to test your rotation because others have done it for me. Their maths takes into account scaling. I have played my paladin since before WotLK and allthroughout wrath the 969 rotation has been toated as the best, regardless of gear. unless you are using gear WAY below the level of people in 3.0.2 or somehow above the maximum availble level today, 969 applies to you.

edit: I am willing to agree that the 6969 rotation is a good rotation how nice of you before 20% but after 20% I think it falls apart.well i think your wrong and ALL writen maths is on my side.

To be frank you seem set in your ways, be it your stuck in a rut or not. I doubt any amount of my reasoning will change your mind but i ask you stop propigating your oppinion here without SOLID maths as the OP is not you and so he is FAR more likely to want the general convention rather than your obscure case. even if your case is accurate.

[Legionas]

I agree that the math is on you side except for one instance. That instance is what I listed above. The threat generation of HoW is better than both Consecration and Judgement (-buffs you get from it but if you have a ret pally this dosen't matter). This is the math that you gave me. before you say my math is wrong please look at the source. If you can't say my math is solid then everything you have said up to this point is a lie.

Edit: OP there is alot of great information and alot of information that is very solid. But the fact is there is more to being a tank than to being a macro monkey if that is all you are you can never be reacvite tank. With how agro is for paladins maximazing TPS should be the least of our concerns. The biggest concern of being a prot paladin is keeping up holy shield while keeping your dps up as much as possible while reacting to everything that happens. Some boss fights in ulduar and ToC are not straight up fights and being a paladin you are more suited for offtanking than any other class.

[Fornaw]

2% armor > 2% spell mitigation
Most bosses hit with melee

True, but you may, if you have a spare helm, want the 2% spell mitigation meta in one, comes in handy on some hardmodes, I'm thinking of Hodir and Mimiron primarily, nothing in TotC comes to mind.

[greysin]

your shoulder enchant is fine, most tanks including me use the PvP one instead of the sons of hodir one

dodge rating gives far more dodge % than agility but agility also gives you some armor and crit. i suggest you change your 16 agility gems to +8 dodge/parry +12 stamina or even better get epic ones.

yes you should put 20 defense on your shield and change one of your defense gem for stamina. Titanium plating is only useful for tanking heroics these days. Oh also change your gem on your ring to +stam instead of parry+stam.

also, unless you're having threat peoblems, the +18 stamina armor kit is the way to go for your gloves

i see you havent specced pursuit of justice so you might wanna consider losing 7 stamina for the minor speed enchant on your boots

lastly, you dont need 28 expertise as a tank. i suggest you get rid of the SoV glyph and use judgement glyph or consecration glyph


hope this helped

your achievement sig is funny as hell

[rabbimojo]

I agree that the math is on you side except for one instance. That instance is what I listed above. The threat generation of HoW is better than both Consecration and Judgement (-buffs you get from it but if you have a ret pally this dosen't matter). This is the math that you gave me. before you say my math is wrong please look at the source. If you can't say my math is solid then everything you have said up to this point is a lie.

Edit: OP there is alot of great information and alot of information that is very solid. But the fact is there is more to being a tank than to being a macro monkey if that is all you are you can never be reacvite tank. With how agro is for paladins maximazing TPS should be the least of our concerns. The biggest concern of being a prot paladin is keeping up holy shield while keeping your dps up as much as possible while reacting to everything that happens. Some boss fights in ulduar and ToC are not straight up fights and being a paladin you are more suited for offtanking than any other class.

Certainly different gear yields different numbers.
I think the take-home point here, though, is that the conclusion has been the same since forever, even with gear scaling.

There is something to be said for trying to avoid mindless mimicry of community "wisdom".
However, this does not mean that you should fly by the seat of your pants. Tanking is about a lot of things, but one of those things is endless pursuit of that final tenth of a percent of additional survival. Why? Because the whole raid lives and dies by the tanks' survival.

Threat for a pally is pretty easy, so it's not as crucial to get perfect, but your arguments so far tell me you don't really understand your own position on this. If your claim is really supported, I would expect by now you would have posted some scaling comparisons, to demonstrate at which gearing values underdog ability A (HoW I guess in this case) overtakes popular ability B (whatever you're trying to replace with HoW).

If you don't know those values, then I see no reason for anyone in this thread to take your claims seriously. Conventional wisdom is not something to ignore recklessly.

[Cardolan]

Hello, I would just like to know if there is anything I can do gem-wise, enchant-wise, or gear-wise to make my pally tank here a little bit better. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ood&n=Tendaros


Here are some things I know I need to change:
-New shield, though my guild doesn't really do Maly and we haven't gotten to ToC yet.

10 man Auriaya drops a shield that would probably be an upgrade until you reach ToC; you have legs from her, so I'd assume it's not out of your reach. The rest has been covered enough, I think.

Honestly, though, if your guild has been making any progress into Ulduar, you should be able to do at least some of the ToC 10 bosses.