Question about ele dps in raids...low?

[aessara]

I'm posting on a new account because I know several people from my guild read this thread and I'd prefer to remain anonymous.

We have 2 ele shamans in our guild. One has been ele for quite a long time, and another is new to it. Both have access to 226-245 lvl gear, and while I haven't armoried (nor will I link them), I'm not sure how much 245 they each have. For sure 2500+ gear scores though. I can't comment on specific rotations they use either.

Thats the background. This is the problem. In raids (TotGC25) we're working on Anub. So far our best attempt is Icehowl at 2%. Doing okay but no 'OMGWORLDFIRST_____" territory. Cleared most UD25 hard modes, Algalon 10, etc etc. Our two ele shamans are always, each and every raid, at the bottom of the damage meters, just above the tanks. Burst dmg on Gormok might peak at 5k, while the rest of the raid is blowing him up at 6-8K. Average at the end sits 4-4.5K, consistently, every day, every raid, anywhere.

My question is: are they doing it wrong, or is elemental a weaker dps class right now? Our enhance shamans both sit around 5.8-6K. I'm not trying to pick at these two people. I'm just interested if theres a problem we need to resolve, or if ele just doesn't do as well.

Thanks for the opinions guys.

[Ezzy1258]

Elem shamans are going to be very low on dmg meters no matter what because we are a hybrid class, thats just a given. I must say though, that if they are only putting out 4-4.5k on all fights then they are probably doing something wrong. Although I dont know what kind of gear they are using, I would assume if your starting H 25man ToC, then they should have their 245 4piece T9. As for beasts, I usually avg 5.5k

[omein]

Although I dont know what kind of gear they are using, I would assume if your starting H 25man ToC, then they should have their 245 4piece T9. As for beasts, I usually avg 5.5k

This. They should prob be up around that number. But yes we are low but just remember you love our totem of wrath so before you go considering to not invite them, just remember we get a lot of bumps to the other casters. Just talk to them and try to help them increase it alittle if thats big of deal.

[aessara]

Elem shamans are going to be very low on dmg meters no matter what because we are a hybrid class, thats just a given. I must say though, that if they are only putting out 4-4.5k on all fights then they are probably doing something wrong. Although I dont know what kind of gear they are using, I would assume if your starting H 25man ToC, then they should have their 245 4piece T9. As for beasts, I usually avg 5.5k

I disagree with this. I play a feral druid. Try to keep up kk?
Seriously tho, we have spriests, rets, and yes ferals who can put out much larger numbers than ele's do so this argument is totally invalid. The hybrids do less DPS concept may be true to a point, but it isn't written in stone, and certainly not to the degree that these ele shamans are.

[aessara]

This. They should prob be up around that number. But yes we are low but just remember you love our totem of wrath so before you go considering to not invite them, just remember we get a lot of bumps to the other casters. Just talk to them and try to help them increase it alittle if thats big of deal.

I'm not looking for an excuse to sit them out. Not at all.

I'm trying to determine if its a performance issue, or a class problem. I'm looking for unbiased opinions in a shaman forum so those may be far between I know. I love shamans (my 80 alt is a shaman!) and the things they bring to a raid. Try to leave out your personal desires to defend your favorite class because I'm not attacking shamans. I'm curious.

[fattyboomkin]

Well they need a slightly buff,but prolly their fault cauz of the low dps.

[cyloria]

ugh i have grown to despise the word hybrid...no one gets taxed like us and Shadow priests Most hybrids Love being hybrid and are proud but for us Ele. shaman its a curse and I don't think its right...what i see it as is we don't want to worry about balancing you so we will just say its your hybrid tax...

[Raptorg]

Elemental Shaman currently, well.. Still scale poorly with gear and raid buffs compared to other classes.

[omein]

I'm not looking for an excuse to sit them out. Not at all.

I'm trying to determine if its a performance issue, or a class problem. I'm looking for unbiased opinions in a shaman forum so those may be far between I know. I love shamans (my 80 alt is a shaman!) and the things they bring to a raid. Try to leave out your personal desires to defend your favorite class because I'm not attacking shamans. I'm curious.

Wtf are you talking about...my personal desires. And I gave you my opinion. Try to work with them to fix the problem if you see there is one.

[raser]

the rotation and cd using is what gives out the good ele dps`ers and the bad
just some random screenshots from bosses

http://img91.imageshack.us/i/dpsp.jpg/

http://img91.imageshack.us/i/dps1c.jpg/

http://img91.imageshack.us/i/dps2.jpg/

the rotation for a ele shaman now with the CL buff if kinda personal, i dont know if your guilds shaman even knows what gear they should go for

[Ezzy1258]

I disagree with this. I play a feral druid. Try to keep up kk?
Seriously tho, we have spriests, rets, and yes ferals who can put out much larger numbers than ele's do so this argument is totally invalid. The hybrids do less DPS concept may be true to a point, but it isn't written in stone, and certainly not to the degree that these ele shamans are.

You ask for people's opinions and then you tell them they are wrong? Seriously, if you don't know anything about the class then please don't speak. Saying that my statement that elem shamans cant put out high numbers is wrong, is wrong. Im pretty sure in 3.2 feral druids were the #1 dps class, so if that kind of hybrid can be so high on dmg why can't elem shaman? Because we've never been given the right tools to be that high. No matter how hard I hit my buttons, there is no way an I can out dps other classes, that are playing their class just as well as I am. On rare occassions Ill beat a few people.

[raser]

I disagree with this. I play a feral druid. Try to keep up kk?
Seriously tho, we have spriests, rets, and yes ferals who can put out much larger numbers than ele's do so this argument is totally invalid. The hybrids do less DPS concept may be true to a point, but it isn't written in stone, and certainly not to the degree that these ele shamans are.

dude you got no clue do you? feral druids are or where the top dpser specc in 3.2 and is still one of the top one now, comparing two so diffrent speccs and classes are just dumb

[omein]

Our ele shaman does nice dps, 6.5-7k in Toc, ToGC. like an average dpser

Armory plz

[aessara]

You ask for people's opinions and then you tell them they are wrong? Seriously, if you don't know anything about the class then please don't speak. Im pretty sure in 3.2 feral druids were the #1 dps class, so if that kind of hybrid can be so high on dmg why can't elem shaman? Because we've never been given the right tools to be that high. No matter how hard I hit my buttons, there is no way an I can out dps other classes, that are playing their class just as well as I am.

This is the info I'm looking for. Because I've never played ele, I don't know what to expect or what an ele shaman is capable of. It seems that both in this thread and others I've read, elemental shamans, while they can perform well and put out some nice numbers, and do bring a lot to a raid, shouldn't be expected at the top of meters. I'm not faulting them for this. It makes me feel better knowing that our shamans are probably doing alright (but could improve). I'd ask the same if it was another class consistently in this position. I want to know if its a class weakness (hate that word....sorry) or a player weakness, and I'm seeing the answer.

[aessara]

dude you got no clue do you? feral druids are or where the top dpser specc in 3.2 and is still one of the top one now, comparing two so diffrent speccs and classes are just dumb

....was a joke. Relax. I know ferals are waaaay overpowered right now, and fully expect another nerf. Despite the fact that I play one and have for 2 years, I know its needed.

[Ezzy1258]

Our ele shaman does nice dps, 6.5-7k in Toc, ToGC. like an average dpser

Yeah I would like to see some parses and an armory page too please. I've looked at parses from top end guilds such as premonition, juggernaut, etc. and their elem shaman put out about the same numbers as I do. I've peaked at 8k on H Anub, but thats only during the aoe.

[treem]

our ele shammies are mostly topping recount on 25 man toc, with around 6k dps. it's probably their rotation what makes their dps low imo.

[Mirissi]

You should upload that parse to WMO. according to http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/c...ha/8/0/3/320/3, that would place you right on top with a large margin.

[Mackeyser]

outside of shadowpriests, no other raid spec is as low as Ele. NO raid buffs help our dps and no raid debuffs help us that don't help others equally so we don't gain ground that way.

As well, we don't scale, meaning we have ZERO talents that give us spell power as a function of intellect or spirit. Our only scaling talent helps us recover mana. So, as our gear gets better... we don't.

Much of that is a function of our fixed buffs. At lvl 80 in greens, our ToW is 280 spell power and flametongue wep is 274 iirc. That doesn't change in 245 epics. So we rock beginning Naxx and hardly grow at all as others make HUGE leaps with gear and talents which scale with intellect and/or spirt.

As well, due to pvp burst dmg concerns, our main nuke, lava burst has been castrated. The spell coefficient is a measly 57.14%. So with my raid buffed 3203 SP, I'm barely getting half of that applied to my Lava Bursts because before folks had their resilience gear... Lava Burst "hit too hard" Of course, now that folks have 900 resil.... it hasn't been readjusted back up such that I still have Lava Burst crits for 7k. Ask a mage with 3k SP how they'd feel if their FFB or Hot Streak'd Pyro crit for 7k.

Lastly, other than a shock every 4 seconds, we have ZERO ability to do damage from range on the move. So in ToC, during movement, often while others can supplement with dots, living bombs or traps... we just do zero dmg. There is no spec more penalized for movement than Ele Shaman. And if your Ele shaman aren't expert movers... I'm not...I'm good, but not expert... every little movement mistake gets EXPENSIVE on the meters.

On fights I get it right v. fights I've made slight mistakes, i've seen 1500 dps swings. The penalties are crazy steep and no other spec has them.

Also, if you're using recount, after we die if they have 2pc T9, our FS dot is 27 secs and tics after we die. Happens to me a lot that I die right after I apply it. I was doing 7k on twins in 25... sustained before hero and hadn't gotten the orb buff... just applied the dot and died like 2 mins in. final dps showed like 5300 for the fight. So keep that in mind... that long dot ticking after we die skews our dps down as well.

4.5k with all the movement in ToC 25 is about right. I've done better, but if you incorporate wipes, fights with early deaths and remember what I just said about the dots... 4.5k for overall sounds right.

Bottom line is that we're structurally broken. The scaling issues were discussed in LK Beta and dismissed by the devs. Now that they admit it's an issue and ALL casters will get SP from Int, we're just supposed to wait for Cataclysm with our busted as spec doing crap dmg.

[Incarnia]

Elemental DPS are going to be average if all of your raids dpsers know how to play their class. But honestly I have no problem getting above 6k dps and at minimum 5.5k dps, on the caster friendly fights it's easy to push up and beyond 10k dps such as on Twins for example.