Carrion Birds in 3.3

[Elmer Fudd]

It looks like these guys will actually be the pet that will fight with the wolf for the hunter's main choice when raiding.

Demoralizing Screech: The attack power reduction from this ability has been increased by 40%, equaling the maximum possible attack power reduction from the abilities of other classes.

Demoralizing Screech now decreases the melee AP of all enemies in melee range by 574 (Up from 410). Lower ranks increased accordingly.

This means that if you don't have a fury warrior or feral druid in your group who may or may not remember to keep Improved Demoralizing Shout or "Improved Demoralizing Roar" up, you are still golden.

I suppose this will proved to be most valuable in 10 mans. I hope you don't run into issues in 25 mans where you don't have someone else covering the improved Demoralizing X debuff.

[Impediment]

You're forgetting that prot paladins and ret paladins can also give this debuff now.

So carrion birds will most likely still be not that useful in raids.

[Elmer Fudd]

Pallys can do this aoe style?

[Heidenreich]

Paladins version is also 1) A Waste of Talent Points when a Paladin could put the points into something better. 2) Vindication is less the Demo Shout/Roar

[Luigi]

actually vindication overrides my demo roar and im tanking on a druid

[xstratax]

Paladins version is also 1) A Waste of Talent Points when a Paladin could put the points into something better. 2) Vindication is less the Demo Shout/Roar

You sir, are an idiot...Vindication is 2 talent points for 574 ap reduction, Demo roar/shout is 5 for the same effect. EVERY Prot Paladin and Ret Paladin worth their salt will take it as it is an incredible debuff from a damage taken standpoint. TheckHD over at maintankaind has shown that Vindication is worth anywhere from 15% to 30% less damage from a white swing, and more on some special attacks. Also a Prot/Ret Paladin will keep up the effect with no cost to their mana, and no change to their rotation, something Druids and Warriors cant claim.

Source: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...topic&start=15

[Elmer Fudd]

Maybe I should only be considering boss fights and not also trash, but to the best of my knowlege, a pally can't apply vindication to multiple targets? Will divine storm or consecrate do it?

[xstratax]

Avenger's Shield does 100% of the time, HotR has a chance to.

[Shamb]

Maybe I should only be considering boss fights and not also trash, but to the best of my knowlege, a pally can't apply vindication to multiple targets? Will divine storm or consecrate do it?

Not ''maybe'', you REALLY should only consider boss fights only. Trash mobs are called like that for a reason you know ...

So IF you don't have any ret or prot paladins in your group and IF you don't have a druid/warrior tank, then it might be as good, or better then wolf.

Making a fury or arms warrior do demo is a lost of dps no matter how you see it, so they don't count.

So I'd say again, if you're raid has no ret or prot pal and no druid/warrior tanks ... then yeah, it will be good. <---- VERY unlikely !

[Psychi]

Oh I get it.. his name's Elmer Fudd.... and he's a hunter... haha

[Impediment]

a 25 raid composition without a ret pally is pretty fail :O

[Valilor]

Making a fury or arms warrior do demo is a lost of dps no matter how you see it, so they don't count.

I've never played warrior before but do those 2 specs have to talent for it? Or is it just another ability they need to add into their rotation? How long does it stay up for?

I ask this because if it doesn't need to be refreshed that often then it could be worth the loss in DPS of putting it up every 30 seconds than the loss of dropping a Wolf's DPS. I'm not sure which is greater.

[alienangel]

If you have no warriors, ret/prot pallies, bears (and I think even DKs now have an AP reduction tied to frost fever or something, although maybe that's an attack speed reduction i'm thinking of?), then a carrion bird to screech is definitely worth it on every single boss fight.

I play a warrior alt though, and demo shouting as fury is barely a DPS loss - it's annoying, but you don't have to spec for it unless the fight really demands the stronger talented version, and you have enough spare GCDs and rage to throw up a shout every now and then - having to sunder in a raid without a prot warrior is a much bigger pain in the butt.

As arms it's supposedly a bit harder to keep demo up because you have fewer spare GCDs, but it's still just 1 gcd now and then and a very small amount of rage.

[Antillar]

It's fun to try and imagine a scenario where a wolf isn't the sole choice for every raiding hunter but unfortunately the wolf is the best pet for raids no matter what the situation.

[deadman80]

something to think about before totally dismissing any non-wolf pet...
we are going to be able to select which talent tree our pets use when we tame it once xpac comes out, so carrion birds could become very viable tenacity tanks w/ 2x AOEs available (screech + thunderstomp) i'm also looking forward to testing sporebats with tenacity as potential alternatives to bears for tanking purposes with their AOE poison & armor debuff ^^

i remember right when 3.0 came out, i was using a carrion bird and it held pack agro nearly as well as my uberOPmonkey XD the problem with allowing it to tank was that it was ferocity and had much lower survivability compared to tenacity pets.

just because something is not currently acceptable in raids does not mean it should be ignored completely, as last i checked, there was a whole lot more to our game other than raiding (even diehard raiders do heroics last time i checked)

[Rilgon]

(even diehard raiders do heroics last time i checked)

During which we have real tanks, and don't need a pet tank.

Until they make Furious Howl a Ferocity tree talent, the only raiding pet used will be a Wolf. Period.

[WillFeral]

News Flash:This isn't TBC and as survival your not considered a utility only class,your the pure dps spec of the hunter class...so stop worrying about minor things to reduce to a boss and focus on maximising your dmg on the boss,and a wolf is still the champion pet of assisting you do that.end of story.