Shaman T10 Relics

[ZachPruckowski]

In EJ forums there is a responce from GC the elemental relic will grant haste not crit , which means its very small increas of haste on longer fights but it could be less damage since gcd will be. Used on shocks to keep it up and its less damage on short fights and trash even ...
So I'm sticking woth toew , not worth spending emblems on it

I concur. I ran the math over on Elitist Jerks. It doesn't break even until you're 200-ish seconds into the fight (relative to ToEW), and even at 5 minutes, it's like an average of 6 extra haste. I didn't calculate pre-shocking on critters or anything, but even if you chain-pull the boss and go in with a 3-stack, it's still a maximum of a 19-haste bump. I'm not paying 25 Emblems of Frost or even my GP for what amounts to an epic-gem-sized upgrade. Not unless I'm in full 264 and have nothing else at all to spend them on.

[elliss]

Item lvl doesn't matter nether acually that might have been the biggest reason that change was made .
Example , feral relics , the last 2 were both agility , you can get a proc of one then switch out and stack the other agility proc one will over write the other . Same with our hast you won't be able to get the 200 haste from lb then. Switch out and get the haste from you're shocks it will over write it .
And I will approtch the relic the same way , keep it till after I'm done gearing up , if my first glance math is correct its about 7k to 8k damage increase on a 6 min fight so its about a 25 dps increas if I'm wrong let me know , didn't do the proper math , just a fast over look of it

[Embermoon]

The one I'd be really curious to know about, is the enhance relic. It looks like an obvious upgrade, but is it balanced, compared to the other relics? I'm not up on the Str/Agi to AP conversion rates, so someone pls help me out here:

Enhance: 146 AP, stacking 3 times = 438 AP + 131 additional SP. Pallies, druids, and DKs all get Str or Agi, yet we get AP. I'm not sure why.

DK: 73 Str, stacking 5 times = 365 Str. Doesn't this convert at a rate of 1 Str: 2.2 AP? If so, they're getting 803 AP from this. If we inherently have more crit than DKs, then great, but it makes me wonder if they aren't getting a substantially bigger boost.

Druid: 44 Agi, stacking 5 times = 220 Agi. IIRC, cats also have a 1:2.2 conversion, which would give them 484 AP, plus however much crit they would derive.

Pally: 44 Str, stacking 5 times = 220 Str = 484 AP, if they're also a 1:2.2 conversion.


Help me out where I may be wrong on this, but also, I'd love to know if this is equitable, or if the enhance relic should grant Agi, instead of AP.

[elliss]

It is for the fact that ap = sp for enhance as well so both melee and spells , cl and shocks, get buffed .

[Embermoon]

It is for the fact that ap = sp for enhance as well so both melee and spells , cl and shocks, get buffed .

No, AP does NOT equal SP for enhance. We get 30% of our AP added to our SP, not 100%.

I even said "438 AP + 131 additional SP." Keep in mind, that that AP is buffing what, 55% of our damage? Whatever the fraction is, on your recount, for melee swings and windfury, you'd multiply the 438 AP gain by that fraction, to compare the benefit. Same thing for our spell damage, multiplied by the remaining percent.

Even with that, I can guess that our relic *might* be on par with druids and pallies - I'm just not certain. However, for the DKs, if my understanding of the Str:AP conversion is correct, then they're getting roughly 800 AP, where we get significantly less.

If I'm missing something, it has to be either a conversion rate, or some other mechanic that I don't understand about the other melee classes' dps.

[elliss]

I did not mean 100% to sp , I should have worded it better , but I do agree with you seems like the dk one is by far the best one of the bunch , and the druid is the worst of the them . I don't think its that great of an upgrade from their last relic ' again I might be wrong been ignoring my feral last couple of months'

[Deleted]

The DK-one can't be serious... I'm 99% sure that it's bugged, seeing as the DK one gives 73 Str per Stack (5 Stacks) while the Ret one gives 44 Str per Stack (5 Stacks). Both 245 relics for those two classes give 200 Str, so it's not logical that there's a difference now.

[fakestreet]

Ya, the DK one is almost certainly going to be changed to (if not already) 73 Str stacking 3x (i.e. 219 Str) so using that for comparison when that's the only one that seems out of whack seems like a moot point.

I don't understand why you would want the Relic to give you Agi. If you convert the AP of that Relic to Agi, it would be something along the line of 73 Agi stacking 3x (219 Agi). The subsequent totem would give much less AP and therefore SP while only gaining Melee crit (i.e. not Spell crit).

[Zero_Caliber]

That totem does greatly disappoint me, I'm just gonna have to keep using my old totem even longer now.
You'd think blizz would be smart enough to understand that ele shams dont really use their shocks much
outside of refreshing the flameshock up on your target -_-

[elliss]

Ya forth elemental relic with haste , 2 in a row that only gives a very small upgrade , toew is an awsome totem due to its 100% uptime .
Would have loved to see a sp relic this time around , would have been nice to get that one for a change

[Omanley]

# Your Earth Shock, Flame Shock, and Frost Shock spells grant 73 critical strike rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

The Elemental totem is haste, not crit, and I believe it is a 30 sec duration

# Your Stormstrike ability grant 146 attack power rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

so its a totem which grants 219 haste, applied through a 5-6 sec cd ability ( 0-5/5 reverb ) which lasts for 30 sek and can be applied at range ( while walking to the boss )

vs

against 438 attackpower, applied through a 8 sec ability, melee only, with only 15 sek duration, which may force a new priority on us

clear winner ele totem? :

[Embermoon]

Ya, the DK one is almost certainly going to be changed to (if not already) 73 Str stacking 3x (i.e. 219 Str) so using that for comparison when that's the only one that seems out of whack seems like a moot point.

I don't understand why you would want the Relic to give you Agi. If you convert the AP of that Relic to Agi, it would be something along the line of 73 Agi stacking 3x (219 Agi). The subsequent totem would give much less AP and therefore SP while only gaining Melee crit (i.e. not Spell crit).

I wouldn't want it to give half the Agi of it's current AP. You're thinking conversion, where I'm thinking replacement. Keep in mind that this is compared to the current relic, and compared to the DK relic. If the DK relic is likely a typo, then my whole point is moot.

If the new relics are going to be ilvl 251, then the shaman totems seem to be in-line, scaling-wise, with the current ilvl 245 ones. However, if the new relics are ilvl 258, then they seem, on first glance, to be weak.

[fakestreet]

I wouldn't want it to give half the Agi of it's current AP. You're thinking conversion, where I'm thinking replacement. Keep in mind that this is compared to the current relic, and compared to the DK relic. If the DK relic is likely a typo, then my whole point is moot.

If the new relics are going to be ilvl 251, then the shaman totems seem to be in-line, scaling-wise, with the current ilvl 245 ones. However, if the new relics are ilvl 258, then they seem, on first glance, to be weak.

How are they different in context of ilevel?

Druid Relic = 44x5 Agi = 220 Agi
Pally Relic = 44x5 Str = 220 Agi
DK Relic (the only one out of line) = 73x5 (though most likely to be fixed to 73x3) Str = 365 Str

So whatever ilevel these are, to keep the same ilevel as the other items, the new Totem has to give somewhere along the line of 220 Agi (or 440 AP). Note that I'm not comparing its scaling to the previous tier of Totem. I'm comparing it to the other Relics in that tier.

[Embermoon]

How are they different in context of ilevel?

Druid Relic = 44x5 Agi = 220 Agi
Pally Relic = 44x5 Str = 220 Agi
DK Relic (the only one out of line) = 73x5 (though most likely to be fixed to 73x3) Str = 365 Str

So whatever ilevel these are, to keep the same ilevel as the other items, the new Totem has to give somewhere along the line of 220 Agi (or 440 AP). Note that I'm not comparing its scaling to the previous tier of Totem. I'm comparing it to the other Relics in that tier.

Yeah, I segued into a comparison of current tier to new tier. Heh, sorry.

To your point, I don't see disparity of any of the relics, except for the DK relic, so we're in agreement there.

To the segue, the thought occurred to me, on my last post, that the new relics would have to be ilvl 251, since they seem to be relatively minor upgrades, compared to the 245 ones. That thought appeals to me, since it makes me think that we'll see yet another series of relics, before the expansion is done. Perhaps they'll be raid drops, like they were in naxx. Again, speculation based on having nothing better to do, atm.

[Thunderspike]

# Your Earth Shock, Flame Shock, and Frost Shock spells grant 73 critical strike rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.
# Your Stormstrike ability grant 146 attack power rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

so its a totem which grants 219 haste, applied through a 5-6 sec cd ability ( 0-5/5 reverb ) which lasts for 30 sek and can be applied at range ( while walking to the boss )

vs

against 438 attackpower, applied through a 8 sec ability, melee only, with only 15 sek duration, which may force a new priority on us

clear winner ele totem? :

not at all, the ele one would force us to EITHER FS early and often to get the stack up quickly or not have the full effect until later where as the enhance one doesnt change a thing, you get up in the boss' face, SS at top priority behind maelstrom procs like it is and bam, your doing nothing different and getting 20 more that the t9 totem, enhance wins imo

[Barky]

not at all, the ele one would force us to EITHER FS early and often to get the stack up quickly or not have the full effect until later where as the enhance one doesnt change a thing, you get up in the boss' face, SS at top priority behind maelstrom procs like it is and bam, your doing nothing different and getting 20 more that the t9 totem, enhance wins imo

personally i think both you and Omanley have a good point, however i think the deciding factor on what relic is better is on the boss you're facing. something where its stand behind and swing wildly i would say that the Enhancement one is gonna come out on top.

However, im pretty sure there will be quite a few bosses in Icecrown that are going to require a lot of movement, in which case i would imagine the ele one to be better, as shocking has a nice range on it you can use it while running away from a mob with a jump spin shock movement like hunters do with shots to keep your stacks up etc.

So the main factors will be personal preference + type of boss in terms of movement heavy or not.

[Omanley]

Im not shocking on cooldown, except when i have stromstrike and maelstrom not ready.

when walking to the enemy, i always use flame shock and totems till i have closed the gap, no change here.

Even with Shocks having a lower priority than Stormstrike, with 2 to 3 seconds lower cooldown i still think you´d be stacking it faster

And the current haste relic is supposely better in single target fights but worse in aoe situations, because it does not affect magmatotem and chain lightning, so i think it would be the same here.

With haste being better at single target fights ( who takes gear because of better aoe damage ? ) and being stacked faster i cant imagine it being inferiror to the ap one.

[Diatribe]

Instead of making us tap a shock 3 times, all they need to do is let us get the full benefit from 1 shock, otherwise, there's most likely going to be a dps hit involved by having to add back in extra shocks to our rotations.