Squeezing in Ferocious Bite

[Shipht]

So I recently attained 2t9 coupled with 2t8. I just broke 450 ArP from gear and I'm starting to gem for it; I'm at 56.58% crit raid buffed and I'm still in pursuit of GT or the Runestone. Anyway, I feel as though with this gear I should easily be able to throw in ferocious bites, but whenever I try, I end up crying to myself as I feel my soul tear from my chest watching rip fall off while I have ~2CP's D: I was hoping someone who's confident with this technique could help me out. Maybe theres a general remaining time on SR and rip that usually is a save spot or something. Thanks in advance =)

[cowpuss]

How many points do you use to Roar? Do you hold your Tigers Fury so that you can Bite and then get a quick 2 combo points to get SR back up? I would also put a prismatic +10 stats in yout chest instead of the shifting nad drop that str ring. It is only giving you ap and arm pen, you are way past the hit cap.

[Shipht]

I'm WAY past the hit cap lol but I've been trying to grab as much ArP as possible. I plan on getting t9 chest and helm next week so I havn't replaced the gems in those. 95% of the time I use 5 points for SR. I never try a bite unless there is more than 10 seconds on both rip and SR, I feel like theres never more time on both at once but they end up running out around the time I reup SR and it just all goes downhill

[getefix]

I'm WAY past the hit cap lol but I've been trying to grab as much ArP as possible. I plan on getting t9 chest and helm next week so I havn't replaced the gems in those. 95% of the time I use 5 points for SR. I never try a bite unless there is more than 10 seconds on both rip and SR, I feel like theres never more time on both at once but they end up running out around the time I reup SR and it just all goes downhill

I rarely find that I have time to use it as well. Unfortunately gemming full agility makes it easier to FB as combo point generation is better, but full arpen makes your FB's hit like a truck. When you feel like you can use it make sure you double check your timers and cd's. And practicing helps a lot. Get on those target dummies and practice practice practice.

On a side note, I think blizz could have tried to include FB into our T10 bonuses. Perhaps a guaranteed clearcasting proc after a bite? That would make life much easier.

[Shipht]

Yeah wow thats a really good idea o.O I think that would make the rotation a lot more interesting. It's nice to see BOOM 16k lol

[Nangz]

Only refresh roar with 5cps usually only happens for me during a berserk otherwise its 3-4

But yea even if ya fero bite with under 5 secs left on roar if ya got TF ur good

[Sunshine]

95% of the time I use 5 points for SR. I never try a bite unless there is more than 10 seconds on both rip and SR, I feel like theres never more time on both at once but they end up running out around the time I reup SR and it just all goes downhill

What I've found, from personal experience:

First, always forcing 5 points for SR is wasting CPs, since if you're at 4 and crit again, the extra CP is wasted. Refreshing at 4 is a good idea, that way if you're at 3 and happen to crit, you get some bonus time on SR. (Note that this is different than the strategy with Rip because of the huge damage difference between a 4 CP rip and a 5 CP rip, whereas there is no difference except time for SR.)

There's no reason to force a high CP SR if it will mess up your rip uptime -- if you've got rip expiring soon and SR expiring before it, and 0 cp, throw up a new SR as fast as possible and build CPs for a new rip.

Second, I've found that the real key to timing bites is making sure that your rip and SR timers are not synchronized in advance. If you're at 5CP and you have 10 seconds on both rip and SR, you're better off using SR to desync your timers than trying to squeeze in a FB. Then you'll have enough time to build CPs for rip.

If SR has more time left than rip, and rip has at least ~10 seconds left, you're good. Alternatively, if SR is expiring soon and rip has ~15 seconds left, throw the FB, use a short SR (1-2 CP), and then build CPs for the rip.

[Shipht]

Thanks Sunshine that makes a lot of sense. I guess I was just having a real hard time breaking it down for myself. I'll be sure to spend some time working with what you said behind dummy :

[Wenger]

Yeah wow thats a really good idea o.O I think that would make the rotation a lot more interesting. It's nice to see BOOM 16k lol

More like BOOM 20k. I don't even have an ArP trinket. Imagine the possibilities with an ArP trinket proc.

[Zechs]

My only input that is different from some of the above is to be patient. I find myself only getting frustrated when I am starved for energy. I find if you just hold back on hitting shred (minus an OOC proc) or FB, if you're uncertain you can pull it off while keeping everything else up, while at minimum energy for either it's a lot easier to keep everything up and running w/o losing out on your 5cps for FB. I recognize that FB is higher DpE than Shred, but not getting an OOC proc or having TF down after a non crit FB and watching rip run off is a very depressing ordeal. I will often times forgo the FB and just hit a shred for (on average) 60% of the dmg and none of the cp loss.

[kingkow]

I only use FB in situations where I can get the energy back and I have >10 seconds on Roar and Rip isn't about to fall off. Needless to say that doesn't happen often. I found its much better to resist the impulse to see OMG 25k and to just shred or wait if I have to.

[Melonberry]

I just let rip fall off. Especially if I can bite while procs are up.

Try biting whenever SR and rip are up no matter how much time is left, then slowly work on the timing adding more each time until you feel you have a nice balance. 100% rip uptime isn't needed. You aren't a rogue. It's nice, but FB hits for 20k+ easily...eviscerate hits for 12k.

[thonga]

Using Feral By Night, sweet lil addon for cats. Display whenever you can slip a Bite Bomb in, without hurting your rotation/prio

[Carbunkle]

Ehm, just a quick question
Do you use SR before or after you Rip? Because when I go dps on my druid (which isnt that often but still) then I am able to land a FB before Rip is out and I can infact put it up again and I only got like 40% crit or something

[Lionhearte0]

Ehm, just a quick question
Do you use SR before or after you Rip? Because when I go dps on my druid (which isnt that often but still) then I am able to land a FB before Rip is out and I can infact put it up again and I only got like 40% crit or something

SR should always be up, so before Rip is ideal.

[Goatonlb]

SR also doesn't suffer from using it with less combo points as far as dmg output. Since our rotations are fluid, if you need to do a 1 or 2CP SR then go for it. It's still a decent amount of time and will allow you to keep up the important things like rip/rake while throwing FB's in there. Only throw in FB if you've got the CP's/time left on SR/rake/rip to do it. Those 3 are all more important than FB.

[SoulPoetry]

i very rarely squeeze FB in my regular rotation. if i get a crit streak with everything up and TF ready, i'll bite the bullet and go for it, i'll also get one off during Berserk but that's pretty much it in a stand-and-nuke scenario. i'm not a fan of FB if i'm honest, since losing 4t8, and won't go out of my way to use it at the expensive of Rip unless the boss leaves in the next 5 seconds and is immune to damage, ie. Anub burrowing.

[Shipht]

What would you say the total dps loss would be on say a 5 minute fight if where you could have used FB, you didn't to be safe? How much of a difference does it really make?

[Cyclonus]

in my experience i find the following

i never FB (unless im on berserk) or (hit a really luck crit streak and find my SR and Rip Both have like 10+ seconds) which generally results in me doing FT, then a quick 1 or 2 combo SR. Then the next rotation getting it back to standard 3/4 SR's

The only exception to the rule ive found is when im actually finishing the target (and i think it will not last a full Rip duration) so like 1% remaining, or phase changes (Anub Burrowing)

----

as to the question about dps gains ?

Some of the best Feral Druids do not even FB (Tun from ensidia is a good example - PS, he has a nice guide aswell)

I think it would go something like this

1. 100% Uptimes on (Rip / Rake / SR / Mangle_if_needed) + FB

2. 100% Uptimes on (Rip / Rake / SR / Mangle_if_needed) NO FB

3. 80% Uptimes on (Rip / Rake / SR / Mangle_if_needed) + FB


I suppose it comes down to your crit % in the end.

[vayron]

We run more than 1 ferals in our guild in most raids, all cats. We each play a bit differently as far as using FB, and each of us puts out very good dps numbers. I personally very rarely use FB. I carefully monitor my SR/Rip/Rake timers, and if I find I'm waiting for Rip to expire, or SR, I'll often choose to Shred a few times or refresh SR early rather than let either fall off. Sometimes wastes a few combo points, but I think the efficiency in refreshing Rip at 0-1 seconds lefts is valuable.

Conversely, 2 of the other cats use FB more often than I do and they're comfortable with it.

It basically comes down to what you're most comfortable and confident in doing. If you have high crit and can keep SR and Rip up while still squeezing in SR, or you're really good at 5 cp Rips/5 cp bites and 1-4 cp SR's than that can work. Personally, I prefer 5 cp Rip/SR every time.

Only time I bother with a bite is when the mob will be dead in less time than my Rip timer.

As for the comparison between myself and my other guild cats, our actual DPS numbers are always similar. Sometimes I'm ahead. Sometimes on of them is. I've been unable to notice any consistent difference in DPS between us despite our different play styles.

My advice is learn what works for you. Practice it. Stick to it. Don't try to stray too far out of your comfort zone if you're already doing very well doing what you're doing.