Shamans not scaling as well?

[slivoman]

Is it me or does it seem that we are not scaling as well as other classes as we progress through this game. We run mostly 10 mans and are currently on Anub in heroic 10 man mode. It seems that when we were in Ulduar, i was usually 1st or 2nd on all fights in total damage/dps. Now that we are in TOC, it seems that the other classes I raid with are scaling better. I'm usually 5th now behind our hunter/mage/ret pally/fury warrior. Or do I just suck ass now?? I'm averaging 5 - 5.5k on most fights but those other guys are pushing upwards of 7k on the same fights.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r&n=Willywants

[Defeated]

Mmmm, idk about scaling, i have my off nights, my off-off-nights, my terrible nights, then my amazing night.

lets wait till ICC k? :P

[Omarian]

I don't see this problem happening with myself, I'm usualy 1st-2nd, like just now I was n1 in VoA25, doing 8,5k dps 500 above 2nd, who were 3 rogues.

[Denaka]

Maybe you are just not using the right rotation. Who cares anyways as long as you are downing things?

[myrddinde]

We kind of suck atm in fights with aoe, like anub. Other classes peak at 30k+ with 4 adds up and we are at a meagre 10-12k.
I have been playing on ptr tonight and with the new Fire Nova Spell our aoe damage will be much higher, also expect to see some shadow priests high up the meters :-)

[Grunthunter]

Shamen are a raid buff class.
I hate to say it cause my main is a shammy (resto woooooo #1 healer in all raids I do) but as dps I can't break 4k in ele offspec which is good dps for me cause I'm in resto gear and not hit capped but I have seen 1 shammy in a raid I did break 7k as ele so he's doing it right

[aniras]

yea ive been noticing this as well...i was almost always #1 #2 #3 in DPS/DMG in nax and some of ulduar and now im noticing im down around 5th - 9th...and cant say its my rotation cuss its the same exact thing from back when i was doing top DPS...so maybe lets wait till ICC and we might get it back

[op3l]

Ele shamans do not scale at all because we don't have any talents that convert stat into SP. Therefore all our damage come from what is already on the gear.

That's the way it's been and shall continue to be until Cataclysm.

[Karta]

There are more ways than stat to SP conversion to scale. For example blunt damage increase to spell or reduction of spell cast time.

[metzin]

Actually straight up increasing dmg or lowering cast times does not solve the problem. This was already tried in WoTLK and we are seeing exactly the same issue we saw in BC. DPS starts very high then as gear improves it does not scale like other classes do. You can see that Elemental shaman DPS just doesn't increase at the same rate as other classes through gear. Just like in BC in the first tier we are great, then each tier after we drop a bit in relation to other classes.

[Fornaw]

I actually tend to agree with the OP, I think its a buffs issue.

As enhancement you started off with all these nice raidbuffs, almost all of which give you dps (stam/armor/spirit are the only exceptions) so your dps was quite good in a raid even if your gear was poor.

Now though our pretty static weapon imbues contribute less to our dps (windfury's static ap boost on the proc, flametounge's static sp boost) and some of the oddball + a flat number buffs that were boosting our dps are starting to drop in line. Not many classes really benefit in terms of dps from arcane int for example, but in naxx gear 60+ap and some spell crit had meaning.

Another tricky feature of enhancement is that the base damage of shocks/lighning bolts/magma totem/flame tounge started off as a major contributor to our dps as well, but our spellpower scales up terribly, so that base damage still represents too high of a % of the total attack. You can come back with "ret gets the same 30% AP->SP" but that only proves my point, every ret attack scales with AP or AP and SP, none are SP only.

[Azyoulike]

I agree that the buff scaling may be a problem, but also unlike other melee classes enhance doesn't have a 'super stat', arguably it's the ArPen and Strength stackers who are scaling too well, particuarly ArPen.

Elemental has obvious scaling issues, lava burst for example is a big chunk of dps that doesn't scale well with haste due to the CD, or at all with crit as it always crits.

GC has stated in the last few months that Blizz's attitude to scaling is that they'll adjust classes when they get too far out of whack, and with the buffs to elemental in 3.2.2 and shadow priests coming up in 3.3 they seem to be living up to that.

[Wrathonia]

Ele shamans do not scale at all because we don't have any talents that convert stat into SP. Therefore all our damage come from what is already on the gear.

That's the way it's been and shall continue to be until Cataclysm.

This. I hope to god cata fixes our scaling issue. But that doesn't help us with haste not affecting FS dot or the limited effectiveness on lava burst with it's cooldown. And crit being even less desirable. wtb new mechanics that don't involve totems that will fix our class.

[Fornaw]

This. I hope to god cata fixes our scaling issue. But that doesn't help us with haste not affecting FS dot or the limited effectiveness on lava burst with it's cooldown. And crit being even less desirable. wtb new mechanics that don't involve totems that will fix our class.

I'm looking into the future at the finalized 3.3 patch notes for Shaman

Sentry Totem: This spell has a new icon

JK (I hope)

[op3l]

I'm looking into the future at the finalized 3.3 patch notes for Shaman

Sentry Totem: This spell has a new icon now has a longer duration and will no longer disappear when player runs out of range.

JK (I hope)

Fixt

[Deleted]

This. I hope to god cata fixes our scaling issue. But that doesn't help us with haste not affecting FS dot or the limited effectiveness on lava burst with it's cooldown. And crit being even less desirable. wtb new mechanics that don't involve totems that will fix our class.

This, if they dont, well I just guess I'm going to spec enhancement then

[Shaamwow]

Enhancement is still probably one of the best scaling specs in a 25man raid. Being Melee/Spell hybrid means that we use almost every buff we get (except for like wisdom).

Depending on the fight/the buffs you can end up on top or near the bottom--enhancement feeds heavily off of a proper set of buffs/debuffs.

This is also part of the reason that Enhancement can seem to be a bit of a limp noodle in PvP (when wolves are down). Because scaling up the best with raid buffs means that we also scale down the worst without them. So while, in raids, we hold par on damage with our melee compatriots (outside of min/max setting) when we are absent the raid--we fall significantly far (or further) behind.

This is really a big part of the reason (in my opinion) that doing a dps test on a target dummy is just useless, and it is instead better to sim out. Something that rocks while solo might fall waay behind in a full raid.

[tacklebox]

The only way for elemental to be up top in dps is for the rest of the raid to suck. Our max is way below most other classes max.