DKs gone from top arena teams

[kekoa]

I havent played DK, but every DK above 2.2k+ MMR is doing this against our RMP. Now lets see you're below 1.8k and you're one of the whiners after nerf 'Omg I didn't roll DK for being a bad i demand that DK has to be most OP class because its hero class ffs.' :

Haha below 1.8K?? ohhh ok. I dont know how this t2 wep is in my inventory then.

No dk is using lich above 2.2k to avoid sap.

why do you ask??

well its really simple. A unholy dk has to do one thing to avoid a sap every game. Once they do that they wont need to waste lich to avoid sap. That way they can simply use lich to, zomg, break a fear? avoid a poly? Get out of a fear? oh i dunno something big like that. Because hahaha if a dk team comes running at a rmp with lich blown haha inc shakel.

But i'm glad somebody that hasnt played a dk is telling me that they do blow lich to avoid sap against rmp. If they are doing that then the dk team will lose every time.

And im happy with the nerfs to btw. It keeps making the bad dks quit and lets the good dks continue to make ppl cry. So bring them on.

[Blooth]

Haha below 1.8K?? ohhh ok. I dont know how this t2 wep is in my inventory then.

No dk is using lich above 2.2k to avoid sap.

why do you ask??

well its really simple. A unholy dk has to do one thing to avoid a sap every game. Once they do that they wont need to waste lich to avoid sap. That way they can simply use lich to, zomg, break a fear? avoid a poly? Get out of a fear? oh i dunno something big like that. Because hahaha if a dk team comes running at a rmp with lich blown haha inc shakel.

But i'm glad somebody that hasnt played a dk is telling me that they do blow lich to avoid sap against rmp. If they are doing that then the dk team will lose every time.

And im happy with the nerfs to btw. It keeps making the bad dks quit and lets the good dks continue to make ppl cry. So bring them on.

Lich borne rush in with a warrior -> silence on priest and bladestorm zerq him down in 4sec, ofc it doesnt work since you're best dk eu.

[kekoa]

so you rush in your with your warrior so that way the mage can frost nova both of you. So now your nova'd using your strang on a priest so he cant shackle and at the time the mage is ccing one of you, while they destroy the other.

good strat bra i'll keep that in mind.

If a DK and a warrior get caught inna frost nova then rmp already has the advantage and will be diffult to recover from unless your playing bads. Which you most likely are

Good thing that lich and strang was used early so that way you dont have it when you need to make a big kill on a target or avoid some serious CC.

P.S. eu??

P.S.S The hole point is that your wasting lich early to avoid the sap. Waste of a cool down.

[speedymonkey]

set ghoul to attack someone, when it is running to attack you cant be sapped. gg

[Vongimi]

TSG anyone? Its stupid OP, takes no skill.

But DK really isnt scary outside of that anymore. But the problem is that blizz gave them pretty much every tool in the book. They have way to many extra utility skills. So if you gave them damage they will be OP again. Imo, though they will never do this, is to either delete Strangulate, Mind Freeze, or AMS, and give them back some damage. Preferably mindfreeze as that wont affect PvE as much.

[kekoa]

TSG anyone? Its stupid OP, takes no skill.

But DK really isnt scary outside of that anymore. But the problem is that blizz gave them pretty much every tool in the book. They have way to many extra utility skills. So if you gave them damage they will be OP again. Imo, though they will never do this, is to either delete Strangulate, Mind Freeze, or AMS, and give them back some damage. Preferably mindfreeze as that wont affect PvE as much.

Ahh your tears. They feed me.

[Hedstone]

Kekoa:

So for RMP: I've been sending in my ghoul asap (while starting off with it on aggro) and tossing out the occasional DnD. I'm generally the sapped target every time so trying to come up with strats around that. My war does exactly what you are saying not to (tries to assist me on the same target rather than split up to avoid double nova).

So far I've been trying war on rogue, me on mage, pet on priest pally using stuns to either stop a clutch sheep or stop the rogue during a disarm. War and I might trade places depending on who the rog is trying to lock down.

Besides firing off pestilence to put some ae pressure, we are still at around 35-40% success rate vs. rmp. Any advice would be appreciated, tired of the team fluxuating between 1900-2100 every week.

[elseagoat]

Kekoa:

So for RMP: I've been sending in my ghoul asap (while starting off with it on aggro) and tossing out the occasional DnD. I'm generally the sapped target every time so trying to come up with strats around that. My war does exactly what you are saying not to (tries to assist me on the same target rather than split up to avoid double nova).

So far I've been trying war on rogue, me on mage, pet on priest pally using stuns to either stop a clutch sheep or stop the rogue during a disarm. War and I might trade places depending on who the rog is trying to lock down.

Besides firing off pestilence to put some ae pressure, we are still at around 35-40% success rate vs. rmp. Any advice would be appreciated, tired of the team fluxuating between 1900-2100 every week.

Sending the ghoul will not put you in combat, that was changed long ago and the dude saying this obviously has not tried it.

What you need to do if you want to get in combat every time, is cast Lichborne (immune to sap and poly) and get in range to chains of ice someone. Lichborne, run at the enemy, engage. That will keep you from getting sapped.

What kind of healer are you using? Whether or not you have a magical dispel is very important against RMP.

[Eowynn]

Not only have I noticed 85%+ of top arena teams are horde (racial surprise), but DKs went from over represented to not at all.

Could this be they've been nerfed so badly that they arent viable? I mean, just comparing to an enhance shaman -

Strangulate - 2 min CD, 5 sec
Hex - 45 sec CD, 8 sec (can be instant as enhance)

Mind freeze - 10 sec cd, melee range
Wind Shear - 6 sec CD, ranged

Icebound Fortitude - 2 min CD, 20% reduced dmg, costs runepower, prevents stun
Shamanistic Rage - 1 min CD, 30% reduced dmg, usable while stunned

Damage, bascially the same, if not more for shammy (scourge strike does paltry damage)

Now this is just ONE comparison, but really, why are the numbers so OFF with no compensation to DKs? I know they WERE op, but now, they arent represented at all, and if so, barely.


edit - Forgot to mention shamans have spirit wolves to match ghoul stun, with a shorter cool down, BUFFS from totems, and near immunity to snares.

You're seriously stupid

lets forget about Anti magic shell, Ghoul sacrifice, Plate, AOE slow, Spam-able slow, Death grip, Different presence' (tank, moar dps, lower GCD), Lichborne, Gargoyle and several more.

As some wise guy once said - Death Knights are like Inspector Gadget; Tools for every situation, but don't know how to use them.

At least back your whine/comparison up right when whining/trolling.

//http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&n=%C3%89owynn

[Zenaur]

is cast Lichborne (immune to sap and poly) and get in range to chains of ice someone.

running ret/rogue/priest atm and we lol every time a DK tries this.
then again... we kinda rape any TSG under 2200 but still... its really not that hard to get in combat w/o getting sapped and if you blow lichborne you are seriously BEGGING to make my priest very happy and give him the opportunity to CC you up the ass. so you are really just trading one CC for the other w/ this idea.
just my .02

[kekoa]

Kekoa:

So for RMP: I've been sending in my ghoul asap (while starting off with it on aggro) and tossing out the occasional DnD. I'm generally the sapped target every time so trying to come up with strats around that. My war does exactly what you are saying not to (tries to assist me on the same target rather than split up to avoid double nova).

So far I've been trying war on rogue, me on mage, pet on priest pally using stuns to either stop a clutch sheep or stop the rogue during a disarm. War and I might trade places depending on who the rog is trying to lock down.

Besides firing off pestilence to put some ae pressure, we are still at around 35-40% success rate vs. rmp. Any advice would be appreciated, tired of the team fluxuating between 1900-2100 every week.

You dont have to split dps. Send pet in to avoid the sap. ( yes sending your pet to attack something puts you into combat. ) Keep you distance from your warrior so that way when the mage comes in he can only nova one of you. Rogue will most likely pop on the warrior. A dg and chains is big on this. If you can put some big pressure on the rogue forcing the priest to blow cooldowns. Not gonna lie RMP is difficult for TSG. But after putting big pressure on the rogue you can either make a quick switch to the priest with a focus dg into bladestorm/strang/hoj. and either the rogue or the priest will die. While at that time you want to use Lich/ams to avoid the polly to keep the burst up.

Sending the ghoul will not put you in combat, that was changed long ago and the dude saying this obviously has not tried it.

What you need to do if you want to get in combat every time, is cast Lichborne (immune to sap and poly) and get in range to chains of ice someone. Lichborne, run at the enemy, engage. That will keep you from getting sapped.

Haha you are so much fail. Yes sending your pet in does put you into combat and makes you immune to sap. I do it on a daily bases. never get sap'd. Then i can use lich to avoid cc to kill something.

running ret/rogue/priest atm and we lol every time a DK tries this.
then again... we kinda rape any TSG under 2200 but still... its really not that hard to get in combat w/o getting sapped and if you blow lichborne you are seriously BEGGING to make my priest very happy and give him the opportunity to CC you up the ass. so you are really just trading one CC for the other w/ this idea.
just my .02

Thats funny cuz we rape this comp. (yes at the 2.2k+ bracket) But then again i dont use lich to avoid sap lawl.

[elseagoat]

running ret/rogue/priest atm and we lol every time a DK tries this.
then again... we kinda rape any TSG under 2200 but still... its really not that hard to get in combat w/o getting sapped and if you blow lichborne you are seriously BEGGING to make my priest very happy and give him the opportunity to CC you up the ass. so you are really just trading one CC for the other w/ this idea.
just my .02

The idea here is that (assuming your healer is a Priest or Paladin) you can dispel Shackle, while you cannot dispel Sap.

By popping Lich and running in, you either A) get in combat, gen RP to block the Shackle with AMS, or B) Get shackled, but you are in combat if you get shackled and your healer can dispel it.

@ Kekoa, I played Priest DK as Unholy with shit gear up until 3.2 hit in season 6, and we were never, ever able to avoid a sap by simply sending the pet in. It never put me in combat once, so either you are lying, or one of us has a huge bug with our game.

Now, I was able to get in combat by sending my pet in and using Ghoul Frenzy for a few weeks, but that got stealth changed in a minor patch and I was unable to do it after the minor patch, so I dropped the talent and reverted to using Lichborne in 2v2 and just getting my priest to dispel Turn Undead and Shackle, essentially saving me from a chain sap.

Sometimes I would be able to get in combat without Lichborne, when I saw an opportunity to do this I would go for it, thus allowing me to avoid a Blind->Vanish Sap chain against Rogues or use Lichborne when I got Screamed and my priest was in danger, but on the whole we rarely lost to Priest Rogue teams and we fought a bunch at 2200, even beat one team that was 2379 and had the legendary mace.

But usually, I would pop Lichborne, get in combat fast and my priest would position himself so as not to get opened on right as I was shackled, and mash his dispel button. Usually there would be a gap between the Rogue that went after my Priest, and me who was chasing the opposing Priest (or other healer) to attempt for Chains of Ice to get in combat, allowing me to immediately grip and chains the Rogue a large distance and 9 times out of 10 he would blow some cooldowns to jump right back on my Priest, putting us at an advantage by burning the Rogue's cooldowns.

Before patch 3.2 and the Scourge Strike nerf, I would sit on the Rogue against Priest Rogue and we would essentially win the mana war, switching from Unholy Presence to Frost and back depending if the Rogue kept chasing my priest (lol) or turning around and attacking me instead. Against Paladins, I was able to blow them up WAYYYY faster than a Rogue could kill my priest, so we basically just had a kill race against paladin rogue teams and won every time.

After the Scourge Strike change, Priest DK became obsolete, and I quit the game because I had exams.

[K4ge]

l2p issue, sending your pet to attack makes you immune to sap (yes, still)

[tjcookier]

i suspect kekoa got hudge selfesteem issues irl considering all those "LAWL; L2P" comments, hilarious.

[elseagoat]

l2p issue, sending your pet to attack makes you immune to sap (yes, still)

Not whenever I tested it, and I tested it multiple times.

In PvP, it did not put me in combat, even when my pet began attacking the target after running across the map, I had to attack the target or be attack myself. It would, however, keep me in combat as long as it was attacking the target.

I would go into combat by sending my pet at a boar, but didn't work against player characters.


Fail to see how this is a l2p issue, I think you are lying out of your ass.

[Melty]

It does work, sending any controlled pet in to "attack" (hitting the attack button) automatically puts your pet in combat, and it also puts you in combat. MANY teams abuse this bug, I know from personal experience (2.5k+ rogue)

Armory here: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=M%C3%BCnster

There is NO reason at all to use lichborn in the beginning of the fight. Currently TSGs comp is the most annoying for us, cause what usually happens is: Can't sap warrior cause of zerker rage, can't sheep pally cause of sacrifice/divine sac, can't sheep DK cause of the pet bug. Warrior charges--->MS hamstring our priest, DK comes in strangulate while the warrior bladestorms. There is NOTHING you can do about it if the DK and Warr get lucky crits, our priest just folds while we sit there watching her die. Only way we counter this (because my mage is arcane) is we nova them behind a pillar while they chase our priest, and we zerg the pally w/ mass dispel. DKs are not useless, they can shut down a whole team if used correctly. Yes, scourge strike doesn't hit for much, but combined with a warrior it doesn't matter. All you have to do is keep someone in place, and get your gargoyle out. Some DKs kill people without even getting to them. How? Spam icy touch, chains of ice and death coil after you get your gargoyle out. With your arena partner its more than enough damage to kill someone.

You have tools for a reason, use it. You're not a glass cannon, you're supposed to be the utility on the team. The game is not balanced around duels or 2v2 for a reason.

Forgot to add, the reason your getting sapped is cause of lag. Your client may register you as being in combat, but the server hasn't yet. Don't mount up and run in there. Just send your pet out and walk in with it, if you don't send your pet in before you get close you will get sapped. Always account for lag. If the rogue is sapping you that early it means he blew sprint, so spam some blood boils or something on your way in.

[K4ge]

TBH if you're 2500 a strangulate/skillstorm combo should not EVER work. EVER!

[elseagoat]

Interesting, because sending pet never worked for me pre-3.2. Was it recently reverted to work like in TBC, where if your pet has mandatory aggro on something (attack) you are in combat? Or was it like that throughout 3.1, because I never remember it working and I did in fact try it in several arena matches against Rogues.

Maybe it was lag or something, no idea, anyways I was almost positive that it wouldn't work so my Priest and I worked around Lichborne at the start of the fight every game against a Rogue.


It is unfortunate that DKs are relatively confined to TSG comps at the moment.

[kekoa]

First off.

Tough love get over it.

Might come off as a dick but i dont care.

I was first told about the send pet in = immune to sap back in s6. Granted if you are mounted you can not control your pet. So usually i run in drop dnd were i think the rogue is comming from and send pet into attack. That was back in s6. Still works now. Ask any top rated dk and see what happens. Better yet go

http://www.arenajunkies.com

And go to hunter/lock/dk forums and ask them what happens when you send your pet in.

Not whenever I tested it, and I tested it multiple times.

In PvP, it did not put me in combat, even when my pet began attacking the target after running across the map, I had to attack the target or be attack myself. It would, however, keep me in combat as long as it was attacking the target.

I would go into combat by sending my pet at a boar, but didn't work against player characters.


Fail to see how this is a l2p issue, I think you are lying out of your ass.

You will not see the combat thing next to your name. It put you in combat with out physically showing you.

i suspect kekoa got hudge selfesteem issues irl considering all those "LAWL; L2P" comments, hilarious.

ty don't remeber saying l2p but ty

@ Kekoa, I played Priest DK as Unholy with shit gear up until 3.2 hit in season 6, and we were never, ever able to avoid a sap by simply sending the pet in. It never put me in combat once, so either you are lying, or one of us has a huge bug with our game.

Now, I was able to get in combat by sending my pet in and using Ghoul Frenzy for a few weeks, but that got stealth changed in a minor patch and I was unable to do it after the minor patch, so I dropped the talent and reverted to using Lichborne in 2v2 and just getting my priest to dispel Turn Undead and Shackle, essentially saving me from a chain sap.

Sometimes I would be able to get in combat without Lichborne, when I saw an opportunity to do this I would go for it, thus allowing me to avoid a Blind->Vanish Sap chain against Rogues or use Lichborne when I got Screamed and my priest was in danger, but on the whole we rarely lost to Priest Rogue teams and we fought a bunch at 2200, even beat one team that was 2379 and had the legendary mace.

But usually, I would pop Lichborne, get in combat fast and my priest would position himself so as not to get opened on right as I was shackled, and mash his dispel button. Usually there would be a gap between the Rogue that went after my Priest, and me who was chasing the opposing Priest (or other healer) to attempt for Chains of Ice to get in combat, allowing me to immediately grip and chains the Rogue a large distance and 9 times out of 10 he would blow some cooldowns to jump right back on my Priest, putting us at an advantage by burning the Rogue's cooldowns.

Before patch 3.2 and the Scourge Strike nerf, I would sit on the Rogue against Priest Rogue and we would essentially win the mana war, switching from Unholy Presence to Frost and back depending if the Rogue kept chasing my priest (lol) or turning around and attacking me instead. Against Paladins, I was able to blow them up WAYYYY faster than a Rogue could kill my priest, so we basically just had a kill race against paladin rogue teams and won every time.

After the Scourge Strike change, Priest DK became obsolete, and I quit the game because I had exams.

Like some one else said. You might have had a lag issue but it works. Thats why you cant sap locks or hunters if they send there pet in.

The bottum line is this. If your using lich or any other major cd just to avoid a sap your wasting cool downs that can potentially be used later to help you get a kill or stop from being killed.

[elseagoat]

The bottum line is this. If your using lich or any other major cd just to avoid a sap your wasting cool downs that can potentially be used later to help you get a kill or stop from being killed.

Well obviously dude. Its not like I wanted to blow Lichborne against every damn Rogue team we fought, I just felt absolutely sure it was the only way to guarantee not getting sapped. I felt sure that they had changed that from back when I played a Warlock in TBC.

But thanks for pointing out that the game would not tell me that I am in combat even though I technically was. That is probably what I was experiencing when I tested it. Though I am positive a read a thread on AJ where a DK was wondering how to avoid sap at the start (he was Unholy) and they told him to Lichborne. Hmm. Oh well I'll take your word for it, I don't play now so I'll check it out in a few months when I start back up.