Question for Raid Leaders

[Avey]

When a wipe occurs, how do you determine what caused the wipe if its not blatently obvious? (list mods if you use them please.)

I use a few mods at the moment (Acheron) among them, and was wondering what does the community use to iron out the details?

[Ashvael]

Grid/Recount + being aware of what is going on around you is usually enough.

Yet, if you want mods to monitor what's going on, BigBrother and EnsidiaFails are pretty good mods.

[extrudedcow]

Recount can give you some pretty detailed information. Looking at the damage done to specific targets can identify players that are weak or failing to switch to adds. Healing done has it's obvious uses (keeping mind absorbs from disc priests aren't counted). The deaths function can be extremely useful, as it can give you a detailed breakdown of incoming damage and healing for the few seconds before someone died. The damage taken tab can give you a good idea who's standing in the fire.

[Advertise]

I was one of those who discussed it with the raid (if it´s a guild raid ofc).
I still checked what was happening, giving comments along the fight and then
summarised it if we wiped.

I like the idea of trying, making up tacts with the raid instead of saying "Do this cause bosskillers or wowwiki says so". =)
I only told the raid what abilities to expect and said "Work around them".
It´s easier that way to find out what went wrong in my oppinion.

Only special encounters, such as Twins in ToC, i gave full tacts. Modified to work with the current raid ofc but.

[Annoying]

Recount. Watching grid for when people die. Failbot. Completely understanding everyone's roll for the fight helps a ton too. When someone dies in P3 anub you generally know either the tank didn't get the adds right (or the rogues didn't MD right...), or the healers failed at healing LS or pencold. Recount shows death logs.

Certain fights are a bit tougher. Fac champs, generally we have those who CC the dps call out when their dps targets a player, etc. After the first few death's we stop paying attention and just try and figure out why the first people died; Those who die later are most likely just part of a chain reaction from the first deaths.

[Iteken]

I say on TeamSpeak:
"What Happened then".

if no-one replies with a reason for the wipe. i get sarcastic. In general though, be aware. Have a grid like add-on and see who dies first.

[bahumut5]

I was one of those who discussed it with the raid

This.
I dont like to be bossy on my raid, I love Theory Crafting, and I mostly have a good idea of what happened as a ranged dps (which makes it easyer to look at everything happening around you). I just think that a raid should work together, and if you ask them this once, you'll notice people start doing there best at watching at other stuff instead of just the boss and their dps meters.

[herpecin]

i find that the first few people to die are usually not the ones who caused the wipe, EG.

incenerate flesh goes off on the shortly on jarraxus hard, raid dmg causes 3 people to die.

the flesh went off because naturally the healers didnt heal it away.

the healers didnt heal it away cause you had too many mistress' spawn from the portal and they were all silence'd/off-casting.

you had too many mistress' spawn because the the 2 warlocks on the south side chose to not move 5 yards to hit the portal.

its called dominos

[drmadhatter]

As a Raid leader myself i always try to have a broad view of what is going on with every one in the room and fight recount shows me enough of the numbers to know who's slacking and who's not doing what they where assigned to do.

I tank the raids so its not hard to watch who's not interrupting, dpsing and healing. I can see it by looking around the room.
Deciding who is fail and who isn't is based on what there doing to help i would take and undergeared healer with skill then a healer with gear who sucks at his one job any day of the week.

With WELFARE epics there is no real skill for many players. Some do have skill don't get me wrong and life does come first i believe but i feel that fail comes from geared nubs who think they can play in the big boys pit cause they got one piece of t9 cause they ran heroics...
Do you remember TBC we had to work for all our gear i raided way more then i raid now its like blizzard wants us to fail...
My advice stop looking at the gear score and start looking at the player ask the questions that will help you out!
Things like in this situation on this boss you need to...

And for Gods sakes every one stop letting others carry you through and then you won't need to see who made it fail.

[logiclock]

well, first of all im quite a situational awareness kind of guy, so during fights i keep an eye out on what everyone is doing, where they are positioned, what they are doing etc etc.

I use grid to see who is dying, as a ranged dps RL its quite easy to keep tabs on what people are where. Failing that i ask over Ventrilo what happened as sometimes lag or whatever causes tanks to not pick up adds/healers to miss heals or dps to stand in void zones.

The majority of the time, being the type of guild that i am in, i discuss it with the raid members and find solutions to whatever caused it.

[Heratix]

Usually when leading raids I usually tend to ask on ventrillo whats wrong hoping that people react to it and tell what went wrong. If nobody answers, I'm usually the one who notices everything, so there is where I start explain whats wrong, and work together on solving the issue.

Leading raids as a ranged / healer is rather easy though, as you need to oversee everything basicly.

[Modez]

A lot of my corrections come from the other officers. In a raid I have an officer watching the healers, one watching melee, one on ranged and one watching tanks. This is not to say they are actually doing those roles, but they are watching the combat logs and when I ask for something they all start digging for the problem within their respective area. This allows me to get a very fast 'full image' of what happened.

While they are digging I say over vent what I saw and how to correct it. As soon as I get the answer from the officers I drill down to specifically what caused it and how to prevent it in the future. If the problem continues from a specific handful of people, I do threaten (without being a dick) that removal from the raid is imminent if they don't fix themselves. Normally this is enough to get everyone to start paying attention - in 3 years of raid leading I have only had to remove 1 person from 1 raid.

I use grid mainly. Normally it doesn't take any outside source to tell me wheat happened - person X stood int eh fire, and never popped a healthstone/pot. People did not get on the portal fast enough and we had two mistresses come out. People were not moving and running away enough on FC, especially clothies, and got their faces beaten in. People ate too many of the wrong colored orb. ETC. Most of the raids mistakes are typically brain farts, or moments of mental diarrhea. Only if everything looked pristine and then the raid exploded are times where the outside inputs become invaluable. Use your other folks int eh raid that understand fights to your advantage. If they tell you what they saw in tells and you address it over vent, it really sharpens everyone up because they think somehow you see EVERYTHING that happens, and they can't just play like crap and expect to get away with it.

Eyes in the back of your head. Good stuff.

[Aerikaya]

When a wipe occurs, how do you determine what caused the wipe if its not blatently obvious? (list mods if you use them please.)

/roll for blame. If we can't figure it out, we let the RNG gods decide who wronged us.

[drmadhatter]

/roll for blame. If we can't figure it out, we let the RNG gods decide who wronged us.

I may start doing this to see if the gods hate certian classes more like healers tanks or dps...