AV sucks

[warlocked]

ill admit moderen day av pretty much sucks. yes before the fight lasted longer but atleast it wasnt everyone mounts up kills emeny main tower 2 people detach from group to kill bunkers then rape general easyest way to fix av is to remove the changes that happened in 1.4

[shakeme]

As moshy said ...
The Alterac Blitz
go armory Zelgo on Onyxia-US (Horde side). Guess what, I've done that achievement atleast twice (in the same weekend)
also, while you're at it, you can look at my other achievement Frostwolf Protection
But here, lemme give you a tip on how its done, with yet another achievement, since its so fun Alterac Valley All-Star, Alterac Grave Robber, Tower Defense

[Deleted]

When I play on Horde.. I'm the only one smart enough to actually run to the Aid Station. Out of 40 people..
(...)
3 people out of 40 is all you need yet, it doesn't happen.

If it comforts you, I have exactly the same problems on the Alliance side. 90% of the raid rides past the Iceblood graveyard (I wonder if they even know there's a GY?) even if it's still uncapped. I have witnessed situations where I have capped it, defend it against 5 hordies, then 20 ally players ride past and no one stops to give a hand. If the horde has any defense, those idiots progress straight to wipe themselves and then res in the starting cave, because horde has probably taken SH GY by now.

If people manage to cap the relief hut, it means that 1) no one bothers to watch over it (everyone is too busy ninja pulling Drek and wiping half of the raid), it and someone recaptures it or 2) horde has rushed a lot faster. One day we lost ten times in a row simply because Horde zerged Vanndar with a super geared tank before any towers were even down. With a few people defending we were able to delay it, but then our own attackers failed miserably. Defense was doomed to fail when our dps got picked up by the horde one by one only because they were stupid enough to run out of healing range or out of their healer's LoS. Those scrubs were probably too dumb to ever even realize that they were being healed with keyboards smoking, instead thinking that their own imbaness was the reason behind their survival.

All in all, places like AV remind me of the fact that 100 is really only the average IQ of people. Doesn't take a lot of detective work to see who keep it from rising.

[Full-Deck]

vanilla AV was beast

[telemain]

All in all, places like AV remind me of the fact that 100 is really only the average IQ of people. Doesn't take a lot of detective work to see who keep it from rising.

Umm the people who DEFINE IQ keep the average from rising above 100. You know, cause that's the freaking definition of a 100 IQ.

I agree with all your other points (Except that people only res in the cave if the horde have capped EVERY gy.) And also 100% agree that AV is a reminder of how dumb the average person really is.

[Deleted]

Umm the people who DEFINE IQ keep the average from rising above 100. You know, cause that's the freaking definition of a 100 IQ.

I happened to know that, but I think you got my point.

[rabbimojo]

I happened to know that, but I think you got my point.

Do all of us a favor next time, please, and be more specific. Shotgun-style communication is no fun. Snipe us with your words.

[FourDoorsDown]

On my battlegroup, due to SP being the strongest choke-point in the game, we always have Alliance turtling there and making the game take 4 times longer than it needs to. I really miss vanilla AV.

Uh... you miss vanilla AV because there's turtling NOW? Remember the 4 hour long AV games in Vanilla? :

I agree with you that the choke point, extremely unfair.

[rabbimojo]

If anything the Horde have the advantage having a choke-point at IB that is almost impossible to get through if 15-20 horde deffend and most time 10 is enough.
The Alliance chok-point on the other hand is at the bridge which leaves 2 towers to the horde.

If you think the Alliance have the advantage in AV you're either playing with very "not so intelligent" Horde or the Alliance are Germans.

Long-ish post inc. Duck and cover.

Neither side especially has the advantage in layout (though the Alliance base is -definitely- more obnoxious to Horde players than vice versa), but there are definite differences in how AV functions psychologically.

A couple things I've observed during my stint Horde-side the past year or two:

• 
  1) IB is a fine chokepoint if you have intelligent defenders and people actually bother. The choke is a bit weak though, and tends to fall back easily (since the spawn is behind it). This lets people slip past, so you in turn have to maintain a mobile D at FW/RH/TP.
  
  
• 
  2) Due to the placement of choke points, it's considerably more likely that alliance players will die and get sent back to SP/SAS before we arrive than it is that horde players will do the same with IB. IB is considerably further forward than SP. Alliance has a defense by default, in a rush.
  
  
• 
  3) IB is close to Galv, so it's not unlikely that the alliance, after obliterating him, will hit IB hard. Comparatively, post-Bal horde often split. Some stop at IW, some run back to get SHB (if it got skipped or recappeD), some continue up the road. Horde split up are demoralized a bit.
  
  
• 
  4) SP has two back doors, which should weaken it, but they only make it easier to grab the SP flag, doesn't help you break the combined SP/DB choke. In fact, the extra paths tend to splinter horde assault, leaving us out of range of each others' heals and auras, whereas alliance, even if it's multi-front, are in range of each other.
  
  
• 
  5) Continuing 4, SP and DB form one long choke point. Much of this choke point is in reach of DB N/S archers, making it a pretty ugly stretch for Horde. If Alliance is playing any D at all, it can be quite effective. Knowing this demoralizes Horde.
  
  
• 
  6) RH can be capped without aggroing the guards (last I played alliance, anyways). This makes it easier for a lone character to rush and cap, so Alliance have a tendency (and history) of rushing. Horde have traditionally known that D was the answer, so our strategies tend to be broken up, whereas Alliance have been rushing successfully for years and years.
  
  
• 
  7) The Horde distaste for AV, and the general population balance in WoW means that it's common that Alliance will start AV full, and Horde will not. This, again, demoralizes Horde players.
  

Essentially, there's a large number of psychological factors keeping Horde from working together, or attempting victory at all. There is rarely agreement on strategy. Almost nobody -likes- AV as Horde, so if you're setting up a mini premade, you go to the other BGs unless someone specifically needs AV marks or achieves. Essentially, if you go as a premade, you expect it will be your job to make the rush work.

However, I seem to run into little 3v3 or 5v5 alliance teams running around together, basically foiling our attempts. fairly often. It seems that they know their team will tend to rush effectively, so the team's goals are far more fluid. Can do whatever you want.

I don't think it's impossible for Horde to dominate AV, but the cards don't make it easy. When a battlegroup has horde dominance, it's typically because some group, or a couple individuals chanced to push hard on AV wins, there. Persuasive players can get a lot of efficacy out of an AV pug, too.

Wins mean people learn strats, and gain morale. Good players come back, rather than just the horde who still need marks for honor. Overall, our chances improve -markedly-. Lots of battlegroups, Horde is not so lucky.

Edit: Incidentally, that it's perfectly -possible- to win as Horde just makes it all the more infuriating to lose. Then you know it's not really that the map's especiallly imbalanced, but rather, it's just that players aren't paying attention.

[Deleted]

[b]7) The Horde distaste for AV, and the general population balance in WoW means that it's common that Alliance will start AV full, and Horde will not. This, again, demoralizes Horde players.

Now this I don't buy. In 90% of BGs the Horde team is full way before Alliance team, and the battle often starts that way. Completely regardless of the BG. Population balance doesn't matter because Horde clearly has more dedicated PvP fanatics.