From a PvE point of view, how's this Holy spec?

[Deleted]

I have been using 53/0/18 for quite some time now, but I made that from before the intellect/crit nerfs. Now I usually spam Flash of Light, instead of Holy Light, and crit isn't as important anymore, I decided to take a quick look at my current spec. It focuses a lot on crit (in the Ret tree), and since Holy Light had a lot of overhealing usually, I didn't pick any of the healing increasing talents in the Prot tree (like Divinity and Improved Devotion Aura).

These days, I usually spam Flash of Light, so overhealing is reduced by quite a lot. However, Flash of Light is really weak, and I think a boost from the +healing talents in the Prot tree would improve it a lot. Also, since crit isn't that important anymore, I won't be needing the extra +crit talents in the Ret tree. Without these talents, I have around 30% Holy crit unbuffed.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAzgM0sVu0tgdxGzV0h

That's the spec I'm thinking of. Any suggestions?

[belfpala]

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want to gem/enchant +int as far as possible. You want to keep your tank alive.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

[Deleted]

No, I don't want Divine Guardian. I can keep my tank alive perfectly fine without it.

[Skollvaldr]

No, I don't want Divine Guardian.

yes, you do. there's just no reason not to get it if you already go down prot.
get rid of 1pt in thoughness and auramastery or 1pt in imp. loh.

[Lachimera]

From a PvE point of yiew, improved righteous fury is better than thougness, 6% damage reduction form al sources is far better than increased armor.

If you have a resto druid in the raid, improved devotion aura only grants extra armor, and if you have a pally tank is completelly useless.

And well, divine guardian is very usefull xD. 10% more absorption to divine sac, and improved sacred shield.

[MarkoFoo]

Build is down to your personal preferance, not what theory crafters say is right or wrong.

I've been healing on my pally a pretty long time now and I'm still using the holy/retri build despite the debate over the overall effectiveness of crit as a stat. Yes its effectiveness as a mana-saving tool has been reduced, however large holy crits are very nice when, for example, solo healing the tanks on anub 10 HC.

I'm not denying the extra utility that going holy/prot can bring to a raid but I can't say that our guilds progress in either 10 or 25-man has ever been effected by my not having this spec, especially as retri-pallys usually carry it themselves.

My advice is to experiment with various builds in a raid situation and simply find the one you find the most effective.

Also don't forget that alot of the talents that people spec into prot for are going to be changed/nerfed, so it might be best not to get used to having them in your arsenal.

Also, you shouldn't worry about the mana situtation at all, when you get your gear to around 245(ish) mana is no longer a problem of any kind.

[belfpala]

From a PvE point of yiew, improved righteous fury is better than thougness, 6% damage reduction form al sources is far better than increased armor.

If you have a resto druid in the raid, improved devotion aura only grants extra armor, and if you have a pally tank is completelly useless.

And well, divine guardian is very usefull xD. 10% more absorption to divine sac, and improved sacred shield.

It's not just the increased absorption, it's the increased duration.

I'm not denying the extra utility that going holy/prot can bring to a raid but I can't say that our guilds progress in either 10 or 25-man has ever been effected by my not having this spec, especially as retri-pallys usually carry it themselves.

My advice is to experiment with various builds in a raid situation and simply find the one you find the most effective.

Also, you shouldn't worry about the mana situtation at all, when you get your gear to around 245(ish) mana is no longer a problem of any kind.

You're probably right, entirely. Theorycrafting shows the holy/prot build is better numerically at least at ToC levels. However, that difference is small and I'm sure doesn't make a huge difference (especially considering ToC 25, even hard modes, don't have things quite like Steelbreaker, Hodir, Thorim, Mimiron, or Vezax).

However, if you're going down the prot tree anyway as the OP does, you might as well pick up the most important talent there (Divine Guardian).

[Allence]

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want to gem/enchant +int as far as possible. You want to keep your tank alive.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

You want Divine Guardian.

I think you lie at that part.

[belfpala]

I think you lie at that part.

[blu]

I think you lie at that part.

not a lie you really do wanna gem enchant/straight intellect and 1 nightmares tear or hybrid gem for your meta only exception would be like 63 spellpower to wep

[Eire]

As was previously stated, you might not want points in devotion aura if you already have a protection paladin and a retribution paladin in your raid. If you're lacking one of those then there might be some utility to spending talent points on Devotion Aura.

If you have both of those in your raid and you really want to invest in prot talents, then Divine Guardian will have its uses. Those uses will change with the adjustments incoming to the talent though and will depend greatly upon party assignments.

If you're dead set against Divine Guardian still, and have been dissuaded from Devotion Aura, points in Righteous Fury will help you a bit, if you're careful of your heal aggro and your raid group is aware that new spawns will likely run directly to you.

If none of those are appealing Benediction can help with mana issues. Improve Concentration aura can help yourself and casters a bit. Sacred Cleansing has situational use.

[matiastiago]

From a pve PoV you will whant something like this as FoL healing build
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...Je-,6Rf3,10505
it gets all the goodies in the holy tree and all the goodies in the prot tree and still leaves 2 points free for pesonal choice.

Why get Divine guardian you say? 20% extra absov on ss makes sure it will stay up more time actualy incrising you FoL crit chance, and of course reducing the tank damage and incresing the best colldowns have right now (not so in 3.3).

As for gems forguet the in crap just gem for pure sp and use the deadly/furious libram. why? FoL is extremely mana eficient. raid buffed you should have around 35% crit and 24K mana and around 200-250 mp5 in combat even spaming FoL with a 1 sec cast with resplenish and divine plea you will never go oom unless you have to HL. Geting SP pure gems should put your FoL at the 3k sp with the libram. plus sp incrses the amount of damage your ss absorvs witch again incrses your FoL crit. with something like this you should be healing like 8k? on crits evry 1 sec plus the beacon healing and never go oom.
And use glyph of seal of light for more healing since mana is not a problem

ofc the FoL style has some disavantages over a HL. with a HL build and 30k mana you can always go to FoL at any time if HL is just overhealing, you heal less per cast but its still healing, but on a FoL build you just don't have the mana to keep a HL spam rotation.

In the end its all about what you like more

And all this comes from a HL spamer

[Starstruk]

dont really see a reason why you would go imp devo over divine guardian.

[Lebeau]

Why would you spend 6 points in toughness when you only need 4 to progress to the next tier?

Also Imp devotion aura is absolutely worthless if you have a prot paladin or a tree druid in the raid (which just about any 25 mana raid will have. If not, get one).

Tale those 3 points out of Improved Devotion Aura, and 1 point out of toughness. Put 2 into Divine Guardian (to save GCDs, Make your SS shields 20% stronger), AND in the up coming patch it will grant 20% damage reduction to the raid. Throw the other two anywhere (Blessed Hands is your best bet when 3.3 hits).

[Arganaut]

"From a PvE point of yiew, improved righteous fury is better than thougness, 6% damage reduction form all sources is far better than increased armor"

... but doesn't rightous fury need to be on for this to work? I can see why it would appeal in PVP but i wouldn't want to be spamming many heals with RF on, especially on aggro reset fights in PVE.

[Skollvaldr]

... AND in the up coming patch it will grant 20% damage reduction to the raid.

this is a nerf. in 3.2 div sac grants 30% (40%) dmg reduction to the raid for the full duration.
in 3.3 it will grant 30% (40%) reduction untill the damge has reached it's max. and it's group only.
the stable 20% reduction has been taken away.

[Xentin]

... but doesn't rightous fury need to be on for this to work? I can see why it would appeal in PVP but i wouldn't want to be spamming many heals with RF on, especially on aggro reset fights in PVE.

There are lots of fights where you will never ever pull aggro with this on. If you are pulling healing aggro on the boss with RF, then your tank is doing something wrong.

For fights with adds (mistresses and infernals on Jarraxus/whelps on Ony/etc) its a little more tricky if your tank isn't able to get aggro on the targets prior to you getting a large heal off, but then just click it off during that part of the fight.

Beasts, Faction Champs, Val'kyr, and tons of other fights in Ulduar, etc. this is extremely useful for the extra 6% survivability.