Faction Champs help

[tyden49]

Ok inb4 everyone else TOC is easy blah blah, you guys suck, raiding is easy, ok whatevs.
Now my guild has recently progressed up to faction champs we are a 10 man late night raiding guild (we usually have to pug a couple of spots). We've spent alot of time wiping on these guys, most of the time us not even getting one of them down, we are not rich in CC and are pretty melee heavy. Our main strat so far has been burn one of the healers down, get a tank to deal with the warrior or dk, and a bit of CC here and there, but we never seem to be able to get the healer down or if we do we have lost a couple on the way, now our dps isnt great, but it could be a lot worse. Does anyone have any good advice or strategies that could help us out. It would be greatly appreciated.

and please dont start flaming on us saying we fail and shit because we might but we just want to progress and have a good time like anyone else.
i thank people in advance for there mature responses.

[Meliann]

Assign people to interrupt on both healers, and use any healing reduction debuffs on the target that you burn atm. And if there's pally, be ready to use Shattering Throw (if he bubbled himself) or Purge (if he bubbled someone else) or smthing

[Atty]

Sounds like you're actually using more than 3 healers if your dps fails so much. If that isn't the case, get new dps.

[IngoDent]

I'm no real pro in neither PvP nor the faction champions, but if you have a hunter/rogue/ms warr, stick them on the burn target, and try to CC the second healer (If you get two), make a shaman spam purge on him, try to interrupt casts, and throw DoT's on a pet if there is one, healer will try to heal that if it's hurt, instead of the others, if you get a shaman, kill his totems ASAP, his Healing Stream in particular. Other than that, practice makes perfect, and let people understand their roles clearly.
Best of luck on both faction champs and any bosses you might encounter after that.

~Dent

[hastilavista]

always give full information:

a) what ist your setup

b) norm or hc?


best tip is normally to run away when you got aggro. You should not get the melee's near anybody. If you are lacking too much cc, let some of your melee's respec prot/deff, they have more stuns/interrupts.

Check if your team got ms-effect.

We burn down a melee first, after that a healer.

[Gilian]

Topic number 100 about faction champions :S

It's just about CC/kiting and zerging skull then cross etc. A resto druid you can banish/fear. Melee (DK/warrior/rogue) you can kite (we always use DK's to CoI/DG them). Interrupt heals. Dispel/Purge hot's and other buffs (freedom on melee).

It is pretty obvious. Try some pvp/arena.

[Surfd]

I'm with hasti: More info is required. Simply saying that you are "mele heavy" is pretty useless to us.

What kind of group setup are you usually running? What kind of CC do you have available. Do you have someone who can spam dispells?

More Info is Required.

[tyden49]

always give full information:

a) what ist your setup

b) norm or hc?


best tip is normally to run away when you got aggro. You should not get the melee's near anybody. If you are lacking too much cc, let some of your melee's respec prot/deff, they have more stuns/interrupts.

Check if your team got ms-effect.

We burn down a melee first, after that a healer.

Just normal mode, we have a disc priest constantly spamming dispel, holy pally, prot pally, 3 dks (yeah we got a lot), a warrior or rogue if we are lucky, warlock (me) and a ranged and a healer pug.
I havent heard of killing a melee first, is it a viable option seein as our dps fails abit? should we try and cc healers whilst burning or just concentrate on the burn?
kinda offtpoic but doen anyone know how to get a focus with experl (im a clicker and trying to CC 2 targets is gets annoying when i got some melee raping me and i have to keep clicking diffrent targets as well as my abilities.

[Piedie]

Hi there,
We are having the same problem in our 10man 'casual' guild. Nice progression with the 'standard' bosses, but with this semi-pvp fight, 'chaos' & wipefest.
I think we lack 'ideal' classes for this one, such as DK (to deathgrip the opponent main healer out of the grp), a rogue (to sap other healers) or a mage (overall CC & slowing).
Strategy should be straightforward: 1) Blow all CD's, CC's etc to burn dow the main healer (Druid or Shammy), then another healer, but keep Pally & Shadowpriest for last.
Some Tips (learned from wiping a lot rather than from killing them ;-):
- fill empty raidspots with classes that can make the first kill easier (DK, Rogue)
- use all CC's on offhealers: fear/sap/deathgrip/windshear/Arcane torrent <BE's>/sheep/Hex ... / trap ... to kill the main healer ASAP, blow all CD's to get him down (it's like ahouse of cards, kill the main healer and it will start falling)
- we have our 2 shadowpriests go into Holy for this fight; shadowpriests need time to build their DPS and AOE is useless in this fight ==> shadowpriests underperform; and also Holy priests are better at raidheling in these situations; and our healer-shammy/Pally go DPS instead of Healing.
- Make everyone awaye that CC & AOE work different here: AOE is practically useless; CC doesn't last as long (just like in PvP)
- clearly assign CC roles for the offhealers
- have the tank try to keep aggro on the heavy hitters

That's all I can tell you; hope it helps
Cheerz, Fausti

[Deleted]

We do the same every week and we never wipe, we barely ever lose anyone.

1: Have an AoE fearer run in, AoE fear them all. This spreads em out and usually prevents a huge instant burst on someone.

2: IF you have three DK's, have one of them spec Frost. When the AoE fear ends, you simply pop hungering cold - lots of time without anyone moving.

3: Bloodlust + Zerk! Generally aim for stuff without too much protection. ( Warrior / Priest Healer / Druid Healer )

4: Now that some dps are dead, if you have anything near good dps, you can go /wank the rest down.

[Astray]

We do FC with 3 healers. One dispelling all the time, the other two heal.
The key to CC is to deal with dimishing returns. If you have druid + mage, make them rotate with sheep and cyclone.
Thats just an example.

[misazadia]

Two things really play a big role here... your setup and the Champs setup.

You can get really unlucky and they have 2-3 healers, but if your cc is working then it shouldn't be a problem.

Usually whenever I or a mate are forming a raid we go about spreading out the invited classes. There's no real benefit in bringing a lot of the same classes. I'll make the bold statement that buffs accros the raid are far more important than the involved members dps.
So try to spread out.

Now the fight is said to be a pvp fight and I never play pvp tbh, but trial and error teaches well.

A few tips on kill order according to the kills I've been involved in:

Champs melee, hunter and mage down last.
Healers, down first. Without healers Champs are worthless...

Have your DK open the fight. There's two ways of doing it. If you can combine it you buy some time.
1. DG the skull target to the raid.
2.Run into the Champs and use that DK icetomb thingy.
or like said, do both.

Pop BL and army at the beginning to get that first healer down!

After that, mages are ready to poly, locks are rdy to banish and droods or who ever does it do that tornado thing that keeps the mobs in the air.
Priests and locks fear when CD is ready. Even holy priests. It takes no time and the fight isn't really that healing intensive when done right.
Most my time I spend on massdispelling to keep dots and novas away. Damage avoided is pretty much better than healing done. In 10man I get around 40 dispells during the fight, in 25 (which tbh seems like an easier fight) I land around 100 dispells.

In between dispells and what not have people do their thing. Healers throw acoupld of heals and dps'ers dps that SKULL. Have tank or another assistent retarget skulls after each kill so people keep dps'ing the same target. (you can keybind marks to your keyboard very easily you know......)

We'd usually have a tank on either the warrior, the enhancement shaman (god he can be a prick) or the retri pala.
Tanks should focus on learning the rotation of their taunting abilities. When I war tank Champs I can keep aggro on my target 90% of the time with the given spells:
Taunt - Mocking Blocw - charge - stun - Shockwave - Ground stomp - if you can play with Intervene (I can't xD) then there's one more for ya.

Most of the time we loose a guy is when taunts are mistimed or get a dimished return and the shaman or someelse picks a clothie and 2-shots him.

Apart from that... keep going for it. I know you might wanna bring guildies for your raids and so on, but try to bring variation to the raid. Even though it means having someone on the bench. You'd prolly progress faster and people would be geared faster allowing you to return to your old setup and getting gear for the people that missed out.

Or... recruit more people
Good luck

[Tyrenis]

Just normal mode, we have a disc priest constantly spamming dispel, holy pally, prot pally, 3 dks (yeah we got a lot), a warrior or rogue if we are lucky, warlock (me) and a ranged and a healer pug.
I havent heard of killing a melee first, is it a viable option seein as our dps fails abit? should we try and cc healers whilst burning or just concentrate on the burn?
kinda offtpoic but doen anyone know how to get a focus with experl (im a clicker and trying to CC 2 targets is gets annoying when i got some melee raping me and i have to keep clicking diffrent targets as well as my abilities.

In my guild (Divide on Greymane) we always burn the Warrior and DK first if we have them, then a healer, then rest of the dps. Key for this is to have enough interrupts on the healers. We also usually have one of our DK's or Tanks focus on the melee target that isn't being burned, along with another on the melee target being burned.

If the DK sees his target going for a clothie or easily killed player, have them taunt or death grip it away. Usually separate the melee from the rest of the NPC's in the south of the room. With your set up, try to do this with your group.

Have your prot pally on the burn target melee. Put your best geared DK on the second melee, and taken to the back of the room to spam Taunt, Death Grip and CoI to keep it from going towards your raiders. Put the other 2 DK's on the healers if you don't have sufficient CC for interrupts on heals.

If you get the Resto Druid, just make a focus macro to cast banish on it. Resto druid is the single easiest healer to take out of the fight the entire time in 10m regular.

Here's and example set up and how we would usually deal with them.

Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Paladin healer and Shaman Healer.

Our first burn target would be the Warrior, with the Prot Pally placed on him to taunt if he goes for an easy kill. Best DK on the Rogue, kiting and trapping him in the back of the room. Other 2 DK's focusing on interrupts on the Shaman and Paladin. Can basically let the Mage and Hunter do whatever til you get to them.

In this set up, we'd burn down the Warrior, then the Rogue, then the Shaman, Paladin then clean up with the Mage/Hunter, which ever is annoying you most at the time. Hopefully you'll have a Hunter/Rogue/Arms Warrior to keep MS up on the burn target. If you have a DPS Shaman or Hunter, let them focus on dispels on the Burn target while your Disc Priest focuses on keeping people bubbled and alive.

If you get boned and get Warrior, DK, Rogue in the same group, I'd suggest getting 2 of them out of the way ASAP, then taking out the healers (unless you have Resto Druid to keep CC'd entire fight) then getting the last melee.

Hope this helps a little.

[hastilavista]

at least one of your dk's should be frost, as above already said. AoE fear at start and then the AoE frost is much time to get your dps on target and your interrupters on the healers.

Nuking a dd is easier, if you can burn them down fast. If not, the chance,he is getting healed is growing. So you should focus more on a healer and let the dks grip/CoI the melees. Dispel dots and there is not much more to do.

On normal, you can taunt the melees, so that they cant attack your healers. Use that.

[tyden49]

thanks all for ur info

[scism]

I feel your pain - we spent about 3 weeks wiping at this stage before we finally got them down, but now we've done it once, the last 2 bosses are a cinch and this week we 1-shotted it all, so keep at it!

to be honest, there is not much i can add above the good advice given here - decide your strategy once you know who you are facing and who you have. Our tactic is lockdown 1 healer and nuke the other while keeping dps off you as long as possible.

Once you have 1 healer down (drood or shammy first, then pala then priest imo) the rest should fall like a pack of cards.

Would have written more but work calls....

[Leafre]

I don't wanna be mean, but your dps suck if you can't burn down a healer with like 200(?)k HP. Anyway in normal 10man, don't even try to cc anything. Just don't. If your dps is already low, you are going to butcher it even more while you are trying to cc (which is going to break earlier because of the pvp rules). One tank should go dps, and help to nuke down skull, the other tank (preferably a warrior/dk) should interrupt a healer. If you have a druid healer amongst the champions, tell your mage/priest to dispel hots 24/7.

[Munk]

I dont know what youre groups dps is looking like but the last two weeks our 10m groups literally aoe'd everything down no cc, no burns we just set a skull on the druid and cleaved our way to victory. Took about 2 minutes and was a lot of fun.

[tyden49]

I dont know what youre groups dps is looking like but the last two weeks our 10m groups literally aoe'd everything down no cc, no burns we just set a skull on the druid and cleaved our way to victory. Took about 2 minutes and was a lot of fun.

Yeah whatevs with the 75% aoe resistance show me a vid or it didnt happen

I don't wanna be mean, but your dps suck if you can't burn down a healer with like 200(?)k HP. Anyway in normal 10man, don't even try to cc anything. Just don't. If your dps is already low, you are going to butcher it even more while you are trying to cc (which is going to break earlier because of the pvp rules). One tank should go dps, and help to nuke down skull, the other tank (preferably a warrior/dk) should interrupt a healer. If you have a druid healer amongst the champions, tell your mage/priest to dispel hots 24/7.

our guild dps isnt to bad actually its more the pugs we get in and before u say get better pugs we raid at like 4am server on a low populated server most of the time we take what we can get we do gear checks but as everyone knows good gear doesnt mean good players

[Munk]

Yeah whatevs with the 75% aoe resistance show me a vid or it didnt happen

our guild dps isnt to bad actually its more the pugs we get in and before u say get better pugs we raid at like 4am server on a low populated server most of the time we take what we can get we do gear checks but as everyone knows good gear doesnt mean good players

AoE resist doesnt affect cleaves, which means pretty much every melee class has free reign to attack them at will. Target non-specific aoe such as swipe will take the damage reduction but things like seal of command dont.

Im sorry I dont run fraps for our 10m reg kills and I really dont feel its necessary. If you think im lying take a click on my sig see my glory of the ulduar raider, tribute to insanity, my alone in the darkness 10m.... I have no reason to lie about it.