Improved SB into the destro rotation?

[sleeve]

I understand, live and love the destro spec, rotation and my dps numbers. From reading these fourms and raiding in 25 mans only to understand that EVERY good mage is arcane so that leaves out the scorch buff on target. For example if there is at least 2-3 locks in the raid group pushing 5k dps, is it benifical for all the casters in the raid group for one of the locks to take the points out of ISL and put it into ISB, being that hunters with hunting party and Ret pallys with Judgements of Wise give the same mana regen buff and from what I see it's always up. My question is this, if one of the locks did apply the ISB buff on target from aftermath proc and pyroclasim or some where inbetween rotations, is it worth crippling his/hers over all dps just to boost the rest of the raid.

[Crusemissile]

oy vey...

have one of your 3 locks go demo, problem solved.

[harky]

Won't be as large of an issue come 3.3, with Demo being buffed even more and Afflic being competitive again. You can build an ISB Destro lock though. You typically use Backdraft to throw a quicker SB to not mess up the rotation too much. I ran with the build for a little while, but dropped the spec when we picked up a Demo Lock which covers that so.. I got the 5 points from dropping Cataclysm and Destructive Reach as well as 1 point off Backlash.

[ScorchHellfire]

Shadow bolt should not be in your rotation for destro... as others have said, rely on a mage or get a demo/affliction lock...

[Gahouf!]

oy vey...

have one of your 3 locks go demo, problem solved.

A Demo lock would probably do more DPS than a Destro lock with ISB, unless that Destro lock doesn't need Suppression, in which case it's still debatable as the Demo lock would bring DP which almost certainly would overwrite Totem of Wrath.

[harky]

Nah, the personal DPS with ISB in the build is higher than Demo's personal DPS. It's just a single SB every 30 seconds to keep the buff up, you don't lose that much personal DPS. In my spec I lost 1% crit, some marginal gain from increased range and then the difference between my average Incinerate and SB about twice a minute. I didn't even really notice a DPS difference when I was running it. Demo is better to keep it up purely because of DP, not the personal DPS.

[Teresaduex]

Nah, the personal DPS with ISB in the build is higher than Demo's personal DPS. It's just a single SB every 30 seconds to keep the buff up, you don't lose that much personal DPS. In my spec I lost 1% crit, some marginal gain from increased range and then the difference between my average Incinerate and SB about twice a minute. I didn't even really notice a DPS difference when I was running it. Demo is better to keep it up purely because of DP, not the personal DPS.

/agree with this guy, but if you have a lock go demo, just make sure they are the most geared for highest DP benefit.

[sleeve]

Thank you harky for giving me a real answer and then having some one agree with you to back it up, I tried my theory on the test dummies in org and my dps stayed about the same depending on self procs of Lightweave to cloak and trinks with internal CD's. did this about 4 times and the numbers were the same for me, so no loss there in my dps. Then I had a boomkin with me to test his dps, it boosted his about 500 depending on his procsas well, I found that a good rotation with this is SB/immo/con/CoD/CB/incen. unless an individual is good at watching their own procs really you can apply CoD right before conflag if pryoclasim is up. I found that applying immo has about a .5 sec to register for conlfag to light up for smashing, therfore if AND ONLY! if pryo is up apply CoD other wise stick to what I said for a rotation.

if any one can come up with a diff rotation for this pls let me know, and as for relying on a Fire mage to put up scorch is retarded due to my statement about THEY ALL WENT ARCANE!!!!! and any GOOD lock will never go Aff at least in any end game guild untill the next patch. Which is why I posted this thread.

[Toogood]

-Dps loss-

[Rogge]

The annoying part is not the shadow bolt every 30 seconds, that's a fairly minor dps loss. But the 5 talent points - ouch.

But you do need those 5% extra crit in the raid. If noone wants to go demo, then it's a smaller dps loss to have a destruction lock pick up (and use) imp shadowbolt, than it is to have one of your mages be fire/use a poor arcane spec. I mean, have you seen the dps those guys do these days? :

[harky]

The annoying part is not the shadow bolt every 30 seconds, that's a fairly minor dps loss. But the 5 talent points - ouch.

But you do need those 5% extra crit in the raid. If noone wants to go demo, then it's a smaller dps loss to have a destruction lock pick up (and use) imp shadowbolt, than it is to have one of your mages be fire/use a poor arcane spec. I mean, have you seen the dps those guys do these days? :

Mages need to switch three times more talents, it's not even about how well off mages are. Also the personal DPS loss from those talents is extremely small. With my spec I lost 1% crit, which yeah is a DPS loss, but the other talents I lost were purely mana and range, neither of which is an issue. If you were running a build with no Soul Leech it's an even smaller change (drop Grim Reach and Suppression). It is not optimal, no, having a Demo Lock is optimal. It's also not a noticeable loss in DPS though.

[Peanutty]

Mages need to switch three times more talents, it's not even about how well off mages are. Also the personal DPS loss from those talents is extremely small. With my spec I lost 1% crit, which yeah is a DPS loss, but the other talents I lost were purely mana and range, neither of which is an issue. If you were running a build with no Soul Leech it's an even smaller change (drop Grim Reach and Suppression). It is not optimal, no, having a Demo Lock is optimal. It's also not a noticeable loss in DPS though.

Dropping Grim reach? Are you insane? I don't know about how everyone elses tanks are but we have 1 of the best tanks on the server and I have a hard time keeping my threat down. This whole Imp. SB spec, I tried it, hands down, I hate it, it's completely retarded especially when you take a warlock who is topping dmg meters and get them to try this spec. 500 dps loss? Go get raid buffed, try more like 1k-1.3k loss. Anyone who goes by a target dummy to calculate dps loss for changing specs is clearly off thier rocker. Trust me I use to do it and I found that when testing on a dummy and testing on a boss the dps differences were substatial. Therefore having Imp. SB in a destro spec is not viable.

[harky]

You might want to rethink your tank being the best on the server if you're having aggro problems. Grim Reach is filler. And no, it's definitely not a 1k+ DPS loss, it's typically not noticeable if you play it properly. If you're the only one there to supply the buff you will see a DPS gain, not a loss. If you were actually playing the spec properly you would have also seen a DPS gain on boss dummies. In an ISL spec with ISB you gain 4% crit on dummy tests and lose... nothing. If you have poor gear then the increased mana consumption can hurt, but that's the only DPS loss you might see. Raid buffed the personal DPS loss is something like 75, but that's assuming you have someone supplying the buff for a build without it.

TL;DR: If you saw a DPS loss on any test with ISB in a Destro spec, you either tested it wrong, or were playing it poorly.

[sleeve]

For example if there is at least 2-3 locks in the raid group pushing 5k dps, is it benifical for all the casters in the raid group for one of the locks to take the points out of ISL and put it into ISB, being that hunters with hunting party and Ret pallys with Judgements of Wise give the same mana regen buff and from what I see it's always up. My question is this, if one of the locks did apply the ISB buff on target from aftermath proc and pyroclasim or some where inbetween rotations, is it worth crippling his/hers over all dps just to boost the rest of the raid.

Once again thank you Harky for an intelligent responce, it only goes to show how many people read what they want to read without considering what I ASKED of the 5 points, only cause of thats 5 free points to put any where and I was trying to see if what I came up with works. where grim reach comes into it I have no clue cause I never mentioned it. 1 sentence comments on how this is fail only shows there really are a few people that know how to play a lock. I've Never raided with a tank that couldn't hold aggro or a hunter that didn't know how to MD or a mage that wanted to nerf their dps for the sake of the raid HENTS my quote and my first responce to harky's answer. Thank you.