Icecrown Citadel Videos, Blue posts

[wuzzle]

Paladin
Retribution in Arena
Ret should be viable in Arena and all aspects of the game. You have to be very careful when you analyze Arena statistics however. If say Shadow priests aren't viable in Arena, then many Shadow priests would rather stop competing than to go Disc. We have found that many paladins will switch specs at the drop of a hat for PvP purposes. You individually may not, but that doesn't prove the trend invalid. So if actual Ret spec paladins are low, you have to ask yourself how many of them are essentially behaving like Ret paladins but going to get a great talent deep in Holy or Prot. How many of them switched to Prot because Prot is too good at healing? You can't just jump to a "buff Ret" solution. (Source)

I've seen that coming.
Hey, rets don't need love they just need hatred from the community and fake attention from developers. I can see it coming it Cataclyslol: Rets will get what? More dmg in more simple ways. Then they will be gibbing people again, people will cry and the damage will be taken away. It's been like this since start of BC

They should just start to think about a viable system for ret. something with mehcanics synergies and combinable attacks/debuffs/buffs. And not just "Oh ... rets are bad ... Why are they bad? hmm they have no snare no ms no interrupt and we don't want to give it to them because then they're not unique enough. Hmm lets buff their damage and give them another boring push-> damage ability."

ladidah We'll never see that

[Nathanyel]

The 20% nerf is applied after diminishing returns. That is why I am saying it won't affect the relative value of dodge and parry. The Icewell Radiance won't get you closer to diminishing returns by itself.

Wait, what? That's utter bullshit, it sure diminishes the value of dodge.
With the 20% reduction after diminishing returns, your dodge reaches high values first, and every new point of dodge has a lesser effect, and then it is reduced by a flat 20%?
Having the nerf applied up front, taking you to a virtual (and most likely negative) [base dodge - 20%] and then applying gains from dodge rating/agi would lead to a higher dodge % left for tanks with a high dodge (which probably have that because they have no other means of avoidance)

[Nathanyel]

New LFG Channel
I don't think a world-wide LFG channel would be something you'd really want. It would immediately become the global chat channel for trade, spam and Chuck Norris jokes.

It would be nice to get some moderation in global channels to get rid of our Chuck Norris friends.

One solution is to just mark every spammer as spam (Rightclick player name in chat > Report as spam)
Tell your friends to also do this. Sure this is actually meant for gold sellers, but spam is spam. Don't limit it to Chuck Norris jokes, you should especially apply it to people "LFMing" in General and Trade. LFG is there for a reason.

[stupid11]

Avoidance causes more problems than it solves.

The entire dodge/parry/crit/hit system is outdated and overused.

This guy had the right idea....

You could easily fix this for Cataclysm. How? Get rid of the RNG from avoidance.

Instead of dodging 100% of an enemy's damage 30% of the time, make it so that tanks dodge 30% of an enemy's damage 100% of the time.

In addition, it seems more logical that a tank could cause a "glancing" type blow rather than dodge an enemy completely, especially in all that armor!

In this manner, a tank would get hit by a boss 100% of the time, but he would reduce the damage taken by a combination of his armor, dodge, parry, and block (for paladins/warriors).

This would completely eliminate "spiking" and allow healers to have more strategy in terms of using more mana efficient heals, not always spamming their biggest heal just so that the tank doesn't get two shot.

On average, there wouldn't even be a huge change in damage taken, because a tank's 40% avoidance would just reduce 100% of the damage he takes by 40%, rather than taking 100% of the damage 60% of the time, and 0% damage 40% of the time.

-----

This would be a huge change in game mechanics, but I think it is a necessary one if you want to resolve this dilemma permanently.

It would give you a lot more freedom in terms of encounter design, designing the combat ratings for level 85, and even the way that healing would play out in cataclysm (in terms of both heal numbers and mana costs).

[wildi]

Second, you can't assume that less dodge turns into less Rune Strikes in such a simple manner.

You can't assume that less dodge doesn't turn into less Rune Strikes.

[phyrix]

Is it me or does the Sindragosa fight look pretty simple tactic-wise?

I mean, I'm sure the damage going around is pretty huge, but to me it just doesn't seem like a lot is going on.

Then again, maybe I'm missing some things, the video isn't top notch quality.

[frester]

Is it me or does the Sindragosa fight look pretty simple tactic-wise?

I mean, I'm sure the damage going around is pretty huge, but to me it just doesn't seem like a lot is going on.

Then again, maybe I'm missing some things, the video isn't top notch quality.

well look at skill list, there is some stuff going on, you may not see it in vid but you will once you are inside

[Rukh]

So instead implimenting these wacky AoE debuffs, why don't they just make bosses at each increasing level of difficulty have higher stats INCLUDING their expertise?

In fact, why don't they get rid of the whole silly 'it takes more hit as you go up to get the same hit rating' and just combine miss and dodge. So if you have 100 hit rating, you'll always hit a low level mob, but a high level mob has enough dodge you won't always hit it.

[dotSeed]

I'm afraid it's all bollocks. If the bosses hit less hard, they will need spikes (gormok-ish or icehowl-ish) to make it challenging. Currently healers can just spam heal the tanks over the course of an encounter, and it will not matter to them if they have 50 or 0% total avoidance, as long as the tank doesn't get gibbed in time shorter than their cast time. On the other hand, if bosses hit way more often, it will be challenging (like algalon for instance), however the dodge nerf won't hurt as much as blizzard thinks it will. In my personal opinion it will lead to raids preferring tanks with higher EH anyway, and Blizzard's theory of avoidance being as important as EH in current and future content seems to be totally wrong.

Or, you know, they can give those MT healers something else to do besides watch one guy's health bar for five minutes. Seriously, the amount of simplification you guys do is astounding. You whine at Blizzard not thinking outside the box and then completely disregard the fact harder (Heroic, let's be honest) encounters could require much better situational awareness or reaction time.

[e]: Rather puzzled why Alpha bunches everyone tombed up like that. I guess it guarantees no unlucky deaths if you use the line tactic and a block breaks just as the explosion occurs but requires more movement. Hmm.

[Ishir]

The 20% nerf is applied after diminishing returns. That is why I am saying it won't affect the relative value of dodge and parry. The Icewell Radiance won't get you closer to diminishing returns by itself.

Wait, what? That's utter bullshit, it sure diminishes the value of dodge.
With the 20% reduction after diminishing returns, your dodge reaches high values first, and every new point of dodge has a lesser effect, and then it is reduced by a flat 20%?
Having the nerf applied up front, taking you to a virtual (and most likely negative) [base dodge - 20%] and then applying gains from dodge rating/agi would lead to a higher dodge % left for tanks with a high dodge (which probably have that because they have no other means of avoidance)

No, he's right - if the nerf was applied BEFORE dimishing returns suddenly dodge becomes much more valuable. The second you walked into ICC 1 dodge rating would practically double in value while 1 parry rating would stay the same. By applying it after DR, this relative value (parry vs. dodge) stays the same.

Second, you can't assume that less dodge turns into less Rune Strikes in such a simple manner.

You can't assume that less dodge doesn't turn into less Rune Strikes.

He's not saying it DOESN'T turn into less Rune Strikes, just that 20% less dodge doesn't mean 20% less rune strikes. A DK tank will dodge many more times than they runestrike - sometimes because they will dodge a few times before their swing timer gets a runestrike off, sometimes because the fight mechanics prevents them from doing so (movement/stunning/range), sometimes because the DK tank is nub and dumped their runic power without leaving 20 for rune strike. Yes it's less, but it *may* not be gamebreakingly less (emphasis on the *may*).

So instead implimenting these wacky AoE debuffs, why don't they just make bosses at each increasing level of difficulty have higher stats INCLUDING their expertise?

I think somebody hasn't been following the conversation - this is exactly what they're doing in Cataclysm.

[CrenVerdis]

It actually wasn't working well on the PTR because some casts that should not have broken it still broke it and it also prevented legitimate stealth breakers from functioning well. We probably could have lived with one of those problems, but with both it didn't seem worth the change.

the fix of broken vanish was broken!
VANISH BUG STRIKES BACK!

[Deathcold]

When they got Deathwhisper out of the bubble, it started to raise hell, almost wipped them.

[superstargoddess]

New LFG Channel
I don't think a world-wide LFG channel would be something you'd really want. It would immediately become the global chat channel for trade, spam and Chuck Norris jokes.

It would be nice to get some moderation in global channels to get rid of our Chuck Norris friends.

Geeze, I know. Why can't they just hire some chat mods to hang out in town? It's not like they can't afford it or anything.

[tjcookier]

I lol'd when that priest died on the first deathgrip->Nova thingy on the frostwyrm and you could hear a girl excuse herself with "My camera was fucked".


AWESOME

[Degenerate]

[e]: Rather puzzled why Alpha bunches everyone tombed up like that. I guess it guarantees no unlucky deaths if you use the line tactic and a block breaks just as the explosion occurs but requires more movement. Hmm.

Pretty sure it is because the tombs have hp and you have to free the players after the bombs have gone off. Grouping up the tombs firstly means dps on them is more effective (you can aoe), and secondly means the area to hide behind is a bit larger. The players have to move away from raid anyway if they get tombed, otherwise you will have too many tombed, why not put them in the same place

[CrenVerdis]

Geeze, I know. Why can't they just hire some chat mods to hang out in town? It's not like they can't afford it or anything.

earlier in this game it was more like the global trade and enchanting channel. you know we already had that (and i srsly want it back)
CN Facts and chatting started in tbc iircr... :-/

[zuggie]

7.3-8k <-- This

You will never do 8k damage in T8, even you are using weapon swapping.

The point is that, weapon swapping requires a lot of "haste" to be effective. It would increase your dps to 9.5k from 9k, but not from 6.5k to 7k.

Fact is I am, fully raid buffed and fully debuffed target. Fight where I just have to stand still and dps. So yes, you can.

Actually have a screenshot here from a 10man VoA (yes I know, VoA = serious buissness!) where I do 7.4
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/856...809123235k.jpg

[Daez]

earlier in this game it was more like the global trade and enchanting channel. you know we already had that (and i srsly want it back)
CN Facts and chatting started in tbc iircr... :-/

Earlier in the game LFG was not global at all (it didn't come global until half way through TBC). It was only usable in the cities. If you weren't in the cities you didn't have access to it at all. Now all the channels span every city.

You are also wrong thinking that spamming stupidity started in TBC. It has been in this game as long as this has been a game. It existed in BETA. Its also a part of every single game since the dawn of MMOs.

[Thanntos]

Where the fuck is my shaman T10.... >

[Nathanyel]

No, he's right - if the nerf was applied BEFORE dimishing returns suddenly dodge becomes much more valuable. The second you walked into ICC 1 dodge rating would practically double in value while 1 parry rating would stay the same. By applying it after DR, this relative value (parry vs. dodge) stays the same.

That's exactly what I meant. Example: you have 50% dodge outside ICC, but 20% inside. Now you get an item with Agi/Dodge rating, or more of that stat than the currently equipped one. This rating is evaluated as if you had 50% dodge, so it gives you a lot less Dodge, increasing your dodge by 0.01% instead of, say, the 0.5% you'd gain with actual 20% dodge, with no effective way to get good numbers of dodge again.
Dodge rating gives the same gains as before, but Dodge as a whole is worth a lot less.
Sure, most tanks can just stack parry and block instead, not that those cared for dodge anyway. But it will hurt bears very much.
Bears usually only get a certain amount of HP before starting to stack Agi. Now all that's still effective is stacking Stamina.